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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Dec 1st, 2015 @ 1:50pm

Still looks bad. I need remade polys/texture packs.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 1st, 2015 @ 1:50pm

CrossXhunteR wrote:Also, how did FFTA ruin judges? It came out first. That just means FFXII saved judges.

FF12 was in development LONG before FFTA. It just took a long ass time to come out. The entire world of Ivalice was constructed to serve FF12. The Tactics Advanced games were merely offshoots of it created to exist in 12's world. So yes, FFTA turned FF12's amazing judges into FIFA referees. Those games are shit. FF12 is amazing. The End.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Rodney » Dec 1st, 2015 @ 1:57pm

You have to imagine how FFXII looked on the hardware available at the time, this game looked fantastic on a tube TV in 480i. Just take those pictures, put them in Photoshop with a blur filter and you'll notice how all the textures suddenly look just fine.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby DarthEnder » Dec 2nd, 2015 @ 1:25am

LiQuid wrote:The entire world of Ivalice was constructed to serve FF12. The Tactics Advanced games were merely offshoots of it created to exist in 12's world.

That's...not true. The original Tactics, which came out 9 years before FF12, was the first game that took place in Ivalice.

The Judges were new for Tactics Advanced, and may have been conceived for 12 originally. Though I'd like to know if there's actually any evidence of this, because frankly, the entire concept of Judges seems built around the role they played in Tactics Advanced. As opposed to in 12, where it's basically just reduced to being a fancy word for Knight.

LiQuid wrote:FF12 is amazing.
FF12 is a shitty MMO without any of the M, M, or O.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Konanda » Dec 2nd, 2015 @ 8:05am

Jenn04 wrote:
LiQuid wrote:I haven't beaten 12 since it came out so I don't remember the specifics of it, but I remember it going crazy at the end, in a bad way. It gets up its own ass a bit with all the mystical crystal nonsense. But playing thru it now, I can't imagine it being bad enough to spoil the bulk of the game. Between all the politicking and the amazing localization and voice cast, this was pretty much my dream story for a main line Final Fantasy game. The personalities and relationships between almost every character is awesome. Even the judges, who you think are going to be nameless, faceless ass kickers, turn into a handful of really well developer characters.

I honestly still don't think I'll ever play FF13. Over the weekend I read up about it a bit and refreshed my memories of why the game sounded so bad to me when it came out. Wish I had done that before I plunked down 4 of my hard earned dollar bills on it. I also blame kenzo for not properly talking me out of it. That dude owes me $4 as far as I'm concerned.


Oh no, I know how crazy it gets. A few days ago on Discord Ko went all out and talked about the twists anyway, so if I didn't already know before, I'd certainly know now! Haha I mean FF Tactics (best FF game, after XII) also went batshit at the end too. Started all political and serious then goes into gods and zodiac and whatever. FFT Advance was the worst piece of shit I've ever played, and set a really, really low bar. What I know of XII and what happens doesn't even come CLOSE to as bad FFTA ended up being. What a pos game. The judges in XII are phenomenal -- FFTA ruins them.

You still should play XIII - even for a few hours like Cross did. From what I heard from Rodney, and seen, the battle system was really well done ... it's just really linear. ... and really anime. I think it'd be more hilarious than anything to see your take on it.

Oh shi -- it looks way better without the filter. How do!?


I didn't talk about all the twists, just the main one. :p Being the introduction of the Occuria like around 2/3rds of the way into the game, which are these up until then unheard of dieties that have been controlling the history of Ivalice from behind the scenes (implying they are responsible for events in subsequent titles in order: FFXII: Revenant Wings; FFT:A2; and FFT) and turns the game from political intrigue and manuvering being the plot driver to LOL GOD DID IT! XD There is still some of the political intrigue going on in the back end but with the whole to follow/not to follow one's destiny thing going on.

It is still one of my favourite Final Fantasy games and definitely worth playing to completion though and if you are feeling particularly adventerous the side stuff like Clan Marks and defeating the optional Espers amongst other things.

Also on a side note, damn 9 years suddenly I don't feel so bad about how I've been at ~70 complete on FFXIII-2 now for 3.5 years.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 2nd, 2015 @ 8:31am

DarthEnder wrote:
LiQuid wrote:The entire world of Ivalice was constructed to serve FF12. The Tactics Advanced games were merely offshoots of it created to exist in 12's world.

That's...not true. The original Tactics, which came out 9 years before FF12, was the first game that took place in Ivalice.

Matsuno's games have all used the name Ivalice but if you're going to tell me that the first Final Fantasy Tactics or Vagrant Story takes place in the same world as FF12 or FFTA you're kind of a dumb ass. It's just semantics at that point. 12 and TA were both developed when they announced the big "Ivalice Alliance" along with Revenant Wings, back when Square was keen on announcing big development initiatives that spanned multiple games, like the maligned World of Mana and Fabula Nova Crystallis. Those were all games meant to exist in the same "Ivalice" and it's plain as day that they are more related to each other than to the original FFT, featuring all the wacky animal races and shit.

Development for Final Fantasy XII began in December 2000 and was headed by Final Fantasy Tactics director Yasumi Matsuno and Final Fantasy IX director Hiroyuki Ito.[51][52][53]

The development team of Tactics Advance, Square's Product Development Division 4, was constructed from employees of Quest Corporation, and work began in February 2002.[1][14]
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 2nd, 2015 @ 8:39am

Konanda wrote:It is still one of my favourite Final Fantasy games and definitely worth playing to completion though and if you are feeling particularly adventerous the side stuff like Clan Marks and defeating the optional Espers amongst other things.

After spending more time with FF12 I'm going to go ahead and promote it to the upper echelon of games bearing the name "Final Fantasy" along with FF4, 9 and FFT.

To be honest, I'm thinking about demoting 9. I keep trying to go back to it and the slowness of its combat, the grind of getting abilities off old equipment, and the fact that you can't save your fucking limit breaks all annoy the shit out of me. It does some of my favorite things in the entirety of the series from a world building and storytelling point of view, but I can't abide the fact that it doesn't respect my time.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 2nd, 2015 @ 3:12pm

DarthEnder wrote:
LiQuid wrote:FF12 is amazing.
FF12 is a shitty MMO without any of the M, M, or O.

I've entered a phase where I feel like I'm done trying to tell other people how to live their life, so please feel free to disregard FF12 for whatever reason you see fit. All I'll say is that I've played a lot of MMOs (probably most of them, actually) and I have yet to find one where I can use simple logic to "program" my party and have combat resolve without any input from me at all. If you've experienced a game like this please let me know, cause I'd legitimately love to try it.

Most MMOs I have played tend to focus themselves around doing a lot of fetch quests too. Kill 10 of these, deliver this to that guy. To my knowledge FF12 doesn't really feature anything like this. The closest it comes is requiring you to kill a certain number of most of the common monsters in the game to fill out its in-game bestiary, which only unlocks flavor text in the form of miscellaneous lore. It serves no actual gameplay function.

To be honest, I've never understood the FF12/MMO comparison at all. The only thing I can think of is people see enemies walking around in the world, the fighting of which happens in real time without any battle transitions. This to me doesn't strike me as particularly MMO-esque. It's just good game design. MMOs tend to feature a lot of bland mechanics like hotbars full of samey abilities on global cooldowns. FF12's combat system is the same active time battle system that had been featured in so many Final Fantasy games before hand. It really is a thing of beauty.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 11:00am

Image
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby kenzo » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 12:17pm

It's the whole 'hit attack; character auto-attacks until either you or the enemy dies' business that feels like an MMO, versus a regular FF title that tediously asks you to hit attack repeatedly for no good reason. Also, I know a lot of people who played 12 never tried out the gambit system like idiots and did all their abilities manually, which can probably feel like ability/spell juggling in an MMO.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 12:58pm

Who even hits attack?! The only thing I physically touch while playing FF12 is the analog stick! Gambits! <3 <3 <3

Oh Jenn, BTW I dunno if I ever mentioned it, but IZJS has a BUILT IN fast forward button. You tap L1 any time and the game just moves at double speed, so you can grind DOUBLE FAST. Clearly it's the best version.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 1:04pm

Enemy HP > 5,000 - Cast Slow

Ally any - Cast Protect

All these spells that in a typical FF game I use L I T E R A L L Y never, I have programmed into my arsenal.

If I'm in an area with a bunch of fucking rude ass skeletons:

Enemy:Undead - Use Phoenix Down

Gambits are actually literally the best thing that has ever happened to a role playing video game.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 1:25pm

LiQuid wrote:Oh Jenn, BTW I dunno if I ever mentioned it, but IZJS has a BUILT IN fast forward button. You tap L1 any time and the game just moves at double speed, so you can grind DOUBLE FAST. Clearly it's the best version.


Aww maaaan, that's so tempting but I really, really like the broken job board though... I dunno if I can part with it! I was looking to see if I can reliably frame skip in PCSX2 and fast forward that way - I'm sure it's possible?

kenzo wrote:Also, I know a lot of people who played 12 never tried out the gambit system like idiots and did all their abilities manually, which can probably feel like ability/spell juggling in an MMO.


Those people are idiots. My step father who never plays any console games beat this and got 100% everything; he played for weeks on end during Xmas holidays, solely because of how easy the Gambit system was to use (also because it's the best game). Anyone who doesn't take advantage of it are completely retarded.

I get the MMO vibe from this game - but I love it for that.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 2:31pm

Game sounds so amazing with my new speakers and Pro Logic turned on holy shit.

There's a limited frame skipping feature in PCSX2 if you hit tab it will turn the limiter on your FPS off and the game will move faster. It's not even close to being as fast as the built in fast forward button in IZJS, and it's on your keyboard. Who has time to reach over to a keyboard when you're playing video games with a controller? Not me!
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 3rd, 2015 @ 2:42pm

I want my husbandos and waifus to have every skill ever though!
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 11th, 2015 @ 3:28pm

My revised Final Fantasy Power Rankings.

God tier:
12, 4, (Tactics)

Great Tier:
9, 6, 5

Good Tier:
7, 3, 2, 1

Tetsuya Nomura Ruined Final Fantasy Tier:
13, 10, 10-2, 8
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby DarthEnder » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 1:00pm

LiQuid wrote:Matsuno's games have all used the name Ivalice but if you're going to tell me that the first Final Fantasy Tactics or Vagrant Story takes place in the same world as FF12 or FFTA you're kind of a dumb ass.
Alright.

I mean, the guys making the games seem to disagree. But since I haven't played VS and haven't played a ton of the original FFT, I'll take your word for it.

LiQuid wrote:I've entered a phase where I feel like I'm done trying to tell other people how to live their life, so please feel free to disregard FF12 for whatever reason you see fit.
Too late. I already played through the whole thing.

I've played through every core FF game except the MMOs, and 13 is the only one worse than 12.

LiQuid wrote:I have yet to find one where I can use simple logic to "program" my party and have combat resolve without any input from me at all. If you've experienced a game like this please let me know, cause I'd legitimately love to try it.
You say this as though it's a positive feature. Instead of a cobbled together way for the game to try and make your other party members feel like other players playing an MMO when you don't have any other players.

I'm not saying it's not a well done system for getting the game to play itself. I'm just saying, fuck this game for playing itself.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 1:37pm

It's THE BEST game because it plays itself. Every game needs to play itself.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby kenzo » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 3:03pm

LiQuid wrote:It's THE BEST game because it plays itself. Every game needs to play itself.

And yet you still don't get the appeal of my visual novels somehow.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 3:18pm

1. You have to press buttons. That's not playing itself.
2. There's no reward for progressing in the game other than experiencing a story and story in games is worthless.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby meDotJS » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 8:57pm

Anyone who thinks Final Fantasy XII plays itself was playing it wrong.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 13th, 2015 @ 9:28pm

Final Fantasy XII plays itself.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby meDotJS » Dec 14th, 2015 @ 12:47am

Maybe when you're fighting lower level enemies, but when you're fighting tougher opponents the battle system really shines.



Does he look like he's doing nothing to you?
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 14th, 2015 @ 1:01am

I'm not mindlessly grinding when I'm fighting tougher opponents. The entire point of the game playing itself is that it does it when you're doing the tedious shit and doesn't do it when you're doing the difficult fun shit.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby DarthEnder » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 1:36am

LiQuid wrote:I'm not mindlessly grinding when I'm fighting tougher opponents. The entire point of the game playing itself is that it does it when you're doing the tedious shit and doesn't do it when you're doing the difficult fun shit.
You know what does that even better? Bravely Default. Because you can make everything go 4x as fast. Or even just turn off random encounters entirely.

The autoplaying isn't as nuanced, but it's way faster. And that's more important since the whole point is not giving a shit.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby kenzo » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 1:56am

DarthEnder wrote:You know what does that even better? Bravely Default. Because you can make everything go 4x as fast.
Playing a 300 hr jrpg at 4x speed is still too much time playing a single game.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 2:04am

That doesn't really sound better to be honest. 12's auto play is nuanced, easy and with the International version you can also speed the game up. Final Fantasy 12 has the most perfect battle system ever in an RPG.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby kenzo » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 2:54am

Suikoden's was better.

Why speed up the grind when you can just straight up remove it?

#FreeWill4Ever
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby LiQuid » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 3:39am

I like to grind. It makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something.
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Re: Final Fantasy: The Thread

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 15th, 2015 @ 12:16pm

LOL Bravely Default. That game is so bad - it started fine, but they artificially extended the last half of the game by making you revisit the same old areas multiple times. So stupid.

I like how you guys are defending the removal of JRPG grind from games and how great a concept that is - I bet there are hundreds of old posts from you guys crying about how great grinding used to be in muh golden age RPGs. Hypocrites! ;)
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