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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:34pm

You're giving examples of moving B-listers to A-list, which isn't that big of a deal. And then you're saying that because Marvel has done that before, they can move a D-lister up to A as well. And that never works and just isn't going to happen, especially when she already has chromosomes counting against her. Remember Electra? It's so much easier to take a character that's already an A-lister, and just tweak them.

As for "people didn't know shit about Wonder Woman." That's just false. A lot more people read comics back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and the stuff of comics bled into the mainstream way more than what we're used to nowadays. There's a reason why they made a TV show out of that comic to begin with - she was legitimately popular. Wonder Woman has been A-List since the beginning of the Justice League.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:38pm

So let me get this straight: You think, pre-1998, Blade was a B-list character?

I absolutely think Danvers has the chops to make an A-lister movie. Remember the X-Men movies? Remember how everyone desperately wanted Rogue in those films, but then were irritated Rogue wasn't flying around, and punching people, and shrugging off bullets like they were spitballs?
Last edited by jw_6179 on Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:39pm

So let me get this straight:

You think, post-1998, Blade is an A-list character?
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:41pm

Blade is a character who has widespread recognition because of a 16 year old movie. One that wasn't even that good. Captain Marvel would be a better film, and is a better character. She's the best shot Marvel has to having a "Wonder Woman" analogue, a helluva lot better than Lady Thor.

As I had edited in to my last post, before you had replied, to expand upon what I said:

I absolutely think Danvers has the chops to make an A-lister movie. Remember the X-Men movies? Remember how everyone desperately wanted Rogue in those films, but then were irritated Rogue wasn't flying around, and punching people, and shrugging off bullets like they were spitballs? Those are Captain Marvel's powers. People wanna see that.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:43pm

I'd watch a Ms. Marvel movie.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 3:59pm

It's cute you think Blade is, or ever was A-list, and kind of seals the deal on this argument b/c your judgment is laughably bad. They made some money and enjoyed some popularity for a while, but never quite broke mainstream consciousness. People didn't watch those movies because Blade was an inherently good character. They watched because Wesley Snipes is a badass. Nobody even knew Blade was from comics. And the character was so awesome that it survived a bad film (Blade 3) and the absence of its actor... oh wait. At its best, Blade enjoyed the noteriety of the Fast & the Furious films. Very popular because of the actors and action among a subculture in America, but not popular enough to go fully mainstream and to elevate the symbol/characters above the actors who played them.

And all this while, you really can't explain why gender-bending Thor would be a bad idea. Or how it is inherently worse than trying to lift a shit-character four tiers above its regular station in life. "This character is a better characters, swear to god!" Nobody else fuckin' thinks so, otherwise they'd be A-list, or at least B-list by now.

Also, it's hilarious you think Ms. Marvel would be a better Wonder Woman analog, when Thor is already the perfect Wonder Woman analog, just gender-bent into a man.

Let's go through the checklist:
x Offspring of old, pagan gods
x Effectively immortal
x Stoic personality
x honorable warrior
x Sibling-issues
x Mommy/Daddy issues; reluctant heir to the throne
x One of the strongest entities in their respective universes
x Wields a unique weapon forged by said gods that forms the basis of their fighting style/powers
x Complicated love-affair with a mortal

Thor is ALREADY the Wonder Woman analog in the Marvel Universe, Only difference is that he's just got a Y chromosome. But Ms. Marvel... she'd be a good Wonder Woman analog because...

x She has boobs!!! :lol:

GTFO man.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 5:19pm

kenzo wrote:x Offspring of old, pagan gods
x Effectively immortal
x Stoic personality
x honorable warrior
x Sibling-issues
x Mommy/Daddy issues; reluctant heir to the throne
x One of the strongest entities in their respective universes
x Wields a unique weapon forged by said gods that forms the basis of their fighting style/powers
x Complicated love-affair with a mortal

Thor is ALREADY the Wonder Woman analog in the Marvel Universe, Only difference is that he's just got a Y chromosome. But Ms. Marvel... she'd be a good Wonder Woman analog because...

x She has boobs!!! :lol:

GTFO man.

Holy fuck, I just realized I am arguing with a functional retard.

You do realize I don't mean "analogue" as in "carbon copy clone", right? I mean, Jesus, are you being willfully dense or are you really that stupid?

Since you're apparently too dumb to live without in-home care, I'll be more clear: Ms. Marvel (We'll avoid calling her Captain Marvel, because it might confuse people who also don't know who the hell that character is either) is a character Marvel could promote in their films to headline a picture with a female lead, similar to what D.C. could opt to do with Wonder Woman. It would be better than the MCU trying to wedge in Lady Thor for Phase 3.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 7:31pm

Man, I love reading your posts dude. They're always soooo good! Let's cut through all the hilarious insults and see if you actually said something of substance in response to what I was saying:
kenzo wrote:And all this while, you really can't explain why gender-bending Thor would be a bad idea. Or how it is inherently worse than trying to lift a shit-character four tiers above its regular station in life.
So, sifting through the crap:
jw_6179 wrote:Ms. Marvel is a character Marvel could promote in their films to headline a picture with a female lead, similar to what D.C. could opt to do with Wonder Woman. It would be better than the MCU trying to wedge in Lady Thor for Phase 3.
:lol:
Nope. GGWP, doe.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 8:26pm

You are needlessly dense. If "mainstream recognition" were where the MCU began and ended, there wouldn't be an Iron Man in 2008, and there wouldn't be everything that had followed since.

And to replace Hemsworth? That's shooting yourself in the foot, trying to replace a mainstream fan favorite. When (And at this point, it's gonna be relatively soon) Hugh Jackman steps down from his role as Wolverine, they are going to replace him with another Wolverine. They're not going to "promote" X-23 and replace the Wolverine character, no matter how much effort they put in establishing her in future X-Men films. Audiences will always see her as "that girl Wolverine", and will wonder "When will the real Wolverine come back?" You are hurting your franchise brand replacing Thor.

Your idiotic stubbornness to be opposed to a Ms. Marvel movie is duly noted, but also incredibly dumb. She's a good character who can carry a film, and would fit in well in the wider universe (And be a good bridge between Avengers and Guardians. She's a cosmic hero with deep ties to both Earth and the Kree.)
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 8:58pm

jw_6179 wrote:If "mainstream recognition" were where the MCU began and ended, there wouldn't be an Iron Man in 2008, and there wouldn't be everything that had followed since.
Like, again, I don't think that's remotely comparable. Elevating a B-List to A is different than elevating a D-List. Iron Man worked out because Robert Downy Jr. But before that, Hulk 1&2 weren't runaway hits or elevated the stature of that character. So you're asking to elevate a D-List character to that of an A-List. Again, that's an impossible task. You have to move the needle with star power, but IMO, no female actress is going to move that needle because that's just how Hollywood works. Re: Electra and Catwoman being able to hold their own films with arguably two of the most famous actresses of their moments in time.

jw_6179 wrote:And to replace Hemsworth? That's shooting yourself in the foot, trying to replace a mainstream fan favorite. When (And at this point, it's gonna be relatively soon) Hugh Jackman steps down from his role as Wolverine, they are going to replace him with another Wolverine. They're not going to "promote" X-23 and replace the Wolverine character, no matter how much effort they put in establishing her in future X-Men films. Audiences will always see her as "that girl Wolverine", and will wonder "When will the real Wolverine come back?" You are hurting your brand.
About replacing the actors of iconic characters - I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think it is. In fact, it could go a lot better than you imagine. Chris Pine and Christian Bale both recent examples that say hello.

I wouldn't begin to compare Wolverine to Thor. Wolverine is S-List infamous without movie and TV properties where people legitimately enjoy the character and would get upset at mischaracterizations. Thor isn't even the most popular character in his own film; I'm pretty sure they could write off Hemsworth and be OK with it as long as they kept whatshisface around as Loki. And again, you still haven't provided a good argument for why it's so bad to gender-bend a character that is now famous, but it turns out that not that many people actually care all that much for.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 9:00pm

jw_6179 wrote:Your idiotic stubbornness
Image
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 9:01pm

Fuck that bro, JLaw could carry a fucking Dazzler movie at this point. Marvel just needs to pick a character and commit and they could do it EZ PZ LEMON SQUEEZY
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 9:22pm

Well, Dazzler is an inherently amazing character, unlike Ms. Marvel.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 10:00pm

You've never read a single panel of a single page of a single comic that Ms. Marvel has been in so shut the fuck up. Kenzo do you ever get sick of being so kenzo all the time?
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 17th, 2014 @ 10:14pm

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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby dakazu » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 12:59am

White comics
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby CrossXhunteR » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 2:22am

Ms. Marvel is not a D-list character. Also the idea of gender bending or race changing a character is bad because there is no creativity to make a new character. Nobody would care about girl thor if she wasn't Thor first. Just look at Valkyrie.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby Master Higgins » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 9:21am

Groot and Rocket Raccoon are the definition of z-list characters, and they are going to make more money in merch this year than probably 99% of other movies. A Captain Marvel movie would do well, assuming Marvel continues the quality movies they have. JW is absolutely correct that more people know Blade than most comic characters, because he had 3 movies. Hit or flop, more people know Elektra and Green Lantern because of the movies than any "good" comic character that doesn't have a movie based around it. It's just the way it works. Outside Superman and Batman, civilians don't know comic characters unless they're in a movie or tv show. Hell, Wonder Woman's lampshade collector popularity is almost 100% based around a show that's 40 years old.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby Master Higgins » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 9:22am

CrossXhunteR wrote:Ms. Marvel is not a D-list character.


Carol Danvers is totally D-list, because she hasn't been in a movie. :\
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 9:30am

Carol's A-list in my mind. :(
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 2:28pm

More like D-cup, amirite or amirite eh fellas eh eh eh? But on a more serious note

Master Higgins wrote:Hell, Wonder Woman's lampshade collector popularity is almost 100% based around a show that's 40 years old.


Do I even want to know what a "lampshade collector" is? I sense I do not.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 2:32pm

jw_6179 wrote:More like D-cup, amirite or amirite eh fellas eh eh eh? But on a more serious note

Master Higgins wrote:Hell, Wonder Woman's lampshade collector popularity is almost 100% based around a show that's 40 years old.


Do I even want to know what a "lampshade collector" is? I sense I do not.

Let me Bing that for you:

http://tinyurl.com/p7gydcx
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 4:56pm

Haha, Bing. OK Peter Parker.

But seriously, Googled "lampshade collector" and some of the results, beyond generic lampshade stores, were... Vague but unsavory. I had thought it was some sort of term for a creepy Ed Gein-y style guy who made lampshades out of human skin or something.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 4:59pm

Don't talk shit about Bing motherfucker. It's the best search engine.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby Master Higgins » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 5:13pm

jw_6179 wrote:More like D-cup, amirite or amirite eh fellas eh eh eh? But on a more serious note

Master Higgins wrote:Hell, Wonder Woman's lampshade collector popularity is almost 100% based around a show that's 40 years old.


Do I even want to know what a "lampshade collector" is? I sense I do not.


Haha, it's a term a customer of mine made up a while ago. It just means people who are fans of the image of the characters, not the actual stories. They don't care what happens in the Wonder Woman comic this week, they just want the new t-shirt, pencil case, mug, or lampshade with the character on it. These are the people that hate it when Thor becomes a woman because they 1) think it's permanent and 2) think they can't get their "original" character anymore.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby kenzo » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 6:01pm

Master Higgins wrote:These are the people that hate it when Thor becomes a woman because they 1) think it's permanent and 2) think they can't get their "original" character anymore.
So in other words, these mouth-breathers in here.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 18th, 2014 @ 7:11pm

kenzo wrote:
Master Higgins wrote:These are the people that hate it when Thor becomes a woman because they 1) think it's permanent and 2) think they can't get their "original" character anymore.
So in other words, these mouth-breathers in here.

You're the one who doesn't recognize this is a 6-month stunt.

Shut your mouth, you'll catch flies.
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby seamus2389 » Jul 19th, 2014 @ 12:57pm

The hate is strong in this thread
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby dakazu » Jul 19th, 2014 @ 4:29pm

dakazu wrote:White comics
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Re: What is the point of pandering to the internet?

Postby LiQuid » Jul 20th, 2014 @ 4:01pm

Topic fodder for the podcast this week Higgins:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rules.html
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