Wherein we discuss scripted events which are broadcast over analog and digital channels.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 1:21pm

Agreed. Wonder Woman is still the #1 DC DTV, but this one's a close second.

How would rank them?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 1:23pm

Of the ones I've seen I'd say Wonder Woman is the best and Green Lantern is the worst.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 1:25pm

Did you watch Superman: Doomsday?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Nearo » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 2:09pm

IRL_Troll wrote:I didn't mind the VA at all. I was able to hear The Joker instead of Bender...besides I didn't care once I saw the scene where the joker cuts up a dude with his glass and shoots everyone else. Pretty damned badass.

I'm not saying it's terrible. Just that Hamill would've been the cherry on top. His voice is iconic. I also remember Phantom Menace being really good. Going to have to revisit that one. Is Doomsday bad? That's on my list to see.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 2:09pm

No, no, a thousand times, no!!!

It's awful. But it gets a partial slide because it was the first out of the gate.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 4:54pm

jinpei05 wrote:Did you watch Superman: Doomsday?


Yes
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 5:14pm

And you're putting that ABOVE Green Lantern? You are surely on crack.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 16th, 2010 @ 7:24pm

Green Lantern was just too unfaithful to the source and the action was kind of bad.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 9:33am

That's still better than Superman: Doomsday. It was just shit. The art designs were fucking awful, the voice acting subpar, and the story was horribly abridged for time and content.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 9:41am

You seem more interested in the animated movies than the live action stuff. Green Lantern trailer came out yesterday and not a word from you about it but if a new voice actor got announced for one of these you'd be all over it.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 9:45am

1) Animation is only limited by the imagination of the writers and animators and uses like a fifth of the budget a live action film.

2) Voice acting is a awesome art. You only have your voice to project your emotions and performance. That is a talent.

3) I saw the Green Lantern trailer two days ago, and while it looks cool, the potential for failure is so high. I'm still not completely sold on Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan.

4) Green Lantern: First Flight > Superman: Doomsday. Deal with it.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 9:59am

Have you read Green Lantern?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 10:02am

I'm pretty well versed. I've read some key selections from the Denny O'Neil/Neil Adams era, most of Hal Jordan and John Stewart's storylines, and followed Kyle Rayner's career from the start to the present.

Emerald Dawn, Emerald Twilight, and Rebirth are some of my favorite storylines.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 12:22pm

Have you read Secret Origins?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 1:08pm

Image

Yup.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 2:11pm

Then how is it possible for you to like the Green Lantern animated movie?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 17th, 2010 @ 2:49pm

Maybe because I'm not a freaking OCD comics-continuity fanboy that can allow for some creative liberties for the sake of an entertaining romp. :lol:

Besides, Christopher Meloni made a good Hal Jordan. And the whole Training Day vibe with Sinestro was pretty cool.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby kenzo » Nov 28th, 2010 @ 4:36am

Finally went and watched this. It was okay. I actually liked Bender as The Joker. It was a mix of the broodyness of a more serious Joker like in the films, with the cackle of Mark Hamill. It worked well enough for me.

But I have to agree with LiQuid's criticizes of the film. It's too much action at the expense of a decent story. Going into this, I didn't know jack shit about who the Red Hood was, or how one of the Robins hijacked the name, but there was no mystery or suspense. Involved at any point. One of my favorite parts about Batman in general is the detective-aspects, and that sense of mystery and suspense was completely cut out of this story.

And the action was alright and planned out well, but not adequately funded. If they'd taken a more conservative approach to making this by limiting the action scenes but dumping proportionally more money into them, they would have been forced to write a better story and given us prettier fights to watch which I would have greatly appreciated.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby LiQuid » Nov 28th, 2010 @ 9:13am

Was that my criticizes? I'm pretty sure I just hated this cause I think Batman is dumb.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby kenzo » Nov 28th, 2010 @ 2:45pm

LiQuid wrote:Was that my criticizes? I'm pretty sure I just hated this cause I think Batman is dumb.
Basically, you said the story sucked. And seriously, the story sucked really hard. The dialog was pretty bad as well. It felt like they took a half hour episode and stretched it out into an hour and fifteen minutes.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 28th, 2010 @ 2:57pm

Pretty schizophrenic there, aren't you kenzo? One post you say you enjoy the feature, then the next you say the story sucks.

Sorry you couldn't enjoy it, but it's not a difficult story to follow. Everything you need to know to enjoy it is told in the film, either by Batman or Ra's Al Ghul. Watch it again. Or don't.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby kenzo » Nov 28th, 2010 @ 3:37pm

jinpei05 wrote:Pretty schizophrenic there, aren't you kenzo? One post you say you enjoy the feature, then the next you say the story sucks.

Sorry you couldn't enjoy it, but it's not a difficult story to follow. Everything you need to know to enjoy it is told in the film, either by Batman or Ra's Al Ghul. Watch it again. Or don't.
I liked it despite the story. It had possibility for being good but the story was too predicable, the dialog too jilted, and the characters' motivations and immediate feelings far too transparent. The Batman/Ra's conversation was symptomatic of the whole issue. It explained things far too cleanly and directly, when I had basically already inferred everything they said long before. This is just a single criticism though, and didn't stop me from liking the thing as a whole.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 10:36am

This is an animated comic book feature, not Shakespeare. Why should the characters have such nuanced performances and dialogue??? :lol:
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:56am

jinpei05 wrote:This is an animated comic book feature, not Shakespeare. Why should the characters have such nuanced performances and dialogue??? :lol:


Why shouldn't they?
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 1:16pm

It's a 75-minute animated feature, not a full length film. There's not enough time for both deep performances/character expositions and kick-ass action. None of the DC Animated Features had the kind of dialogue/performances that kenzo was talking about, yet they all, for the most part, delivered on both characterization and action. Especially Wonder Woman.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby Mr_eX » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 1:58pm

People have standards when it comes to comics and they're only 30 pages.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby kenzo » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 2:08pm

There's more characterization and wittier dialog, with more refined and better thought out action sequences in any given 24-minute episode of Samurai Champloo than there was in 75 minutes of this. This film is written and paced like it's still a Saturday morning cartoon for kids, but the target audience is people like us. It's not unrealistic to expect the writing and directing to catch up with the age of the audience.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 2:22pm

Mr_eX wrote:People have standards when it comes to comics and they're only 30 pages.


Standard vary wildly in comics. Some people just focus on the art and could give a rat's ass about the story, while others emphasize the overall story arc as opposed to a single issue.

kenzo wrote:There's more characterization and wittier dialog, with more refined and better thought out action sequences in any given 24-minute episode of Samurai Champloo than there was in 75 minutes of this. This film is written and paced like it's still a Saturday morning cartoon for kids, but the target audience is people like us. It's not unrealistic to expect the writing and directing to catch up with the age of the audience.


The writing and directing was far better than you are giving it credit for and giving was too much credit to Samurai Champloo. Did you really think the characteriziation for Mukon/Shoryu in "Lethal Lunacy" was THAT much better than Under the Red Hood? A guy who gets trained in Chinese techniques and comes back to kill everyone in Japan. That's not that much more developed than Jason Todd in UtRH. Jason gets killed, comes back, and goes rabid on criminals.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby kenzo » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 2:47pm

jinpei05 wrote:The writing and directing was far better than you are giving it credit for and giving was too much credit to Samurai Champloo. Did you really think the characteriziation for Mukon/Shoryu in "Lethal Lunacy" was THAT much better than Under the Red Hood? A guy who gets trained in Chinese techniques and comes back to kill everyone in Japan. That's not that much more developed than Jason Todd in UtRH. Jason gets killed, comes back, and goes rabid on criminals.
I don't think you get it. It's not the premise of the story that I object to. It's how the story is told. Batman is supposed to be one of the smartest people to ever grace the face of the Earth. Yet for someone like me who doesn't know this story or couldn't tell the difference between any two Robins, I saw what was going to happen from a mile away. I shouldn't be figuring things out before Batman. Instead of making me feel smart, it makes me think Batman is an idiot. That's bad writing and bad direction.
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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

Postby jinpei05 » Nov 29th, 2010 @ 2:53pm

kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:The writing and directing was far better than you are giving it credit for and giving was too much credit to Samurai Champloo. Did you really think the characteriziation for Mukon/Shoryu in "Lethal Lunacy" was THAT much better than Under the Red Hood? A guy who gets trained in Chinese techniques and comes back to kill everyone in Japan. That's not that much more developed than Jason Todd in UtRH. Jason gets killed, comes back, and goes rabid on criminals.
I don't think you get it. It's not the premise of the story that I object to. It's how the story is told. Batman is supposed to be one of the smartest people to ever grace the face of the Earth. Yet for someone like me who doesn't know this story or couldn't tell the difference between any two Robins, I saw what was going to happen from a mile away. I shouldn't be figuring things out before Batman. Instead of making me feel smart, it makes me think Batman is an idiot. That's bad writing and bad direction.


Hey, I'm just addressing your objection to the characterization and dialogue in comparision to Samurai Champloo in your last post, but I'll take this new objection you have...

Of course you saw what was going to happen. You're the omniscient viewer. It's not a complicated plot to figure out. And Batman figured it out just fine, given the information he was provided, which included Jason's blood on the sword, filtering out his taunt in the subway station, digging up his corpse in the graveyard, his knowledge of Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pits, etc.

He pretty much knew it was Jason after the fight with the Fearsome Hand of Four, he just gave him a chance to come clean.
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