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Re: Inception

Postby kenzo » Jul 22nd, 2010 @ 3:46pm

LiQuid wrote:I actually prefer Forever and & Robin to these two new flicks.


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Re: Inception

Postby slinkdickens » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 9:28am

Thinking on Chris Nolan's other movies, specifically Momento and The Prestige
Spoiler: show
What's up with Nolan and suicidal wives?


BTW, my ranking from best to worst of Chris Nolan movies are: The Prestige, Dark Knight, Inception, Batman Begins, Momento.

I think Momento gets a little to much praise by a lot of people. The whole backwards storytelling thing feels too much like a gimmick. I get that the point is to make the audience feel as lost as the protagonist, but this seems like something for a short film. I'd still recommend it to people, though.
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Re: Inception

Postby LiQuid » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 10:21am

Just watched The Prestige and it didn't do anything for me. Why do people like it so much? Inception is easily my favorite flick by him so far. It wasn't as mind bending as Memento was the first time I saw it, but it was by far his most viscerally entertaining flick. I'd put The Prestige just over his Batman work, which it's no secret I don't regard all too fondly.
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Re: Inception

Postby slinkdickens » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 10:26am

LiQuid wrote:Just watched The Prestige and it didn't do anything for me. Why do people like it so much? Inception is easily my favorite flick by him so far. It wasn't as mind bending as Memento was the first time I saw it, but it was by far his most viscerally entertaining flick. I'd put The Prestige just over his Batman work, which it's no secret I don't regard all too fondly.


I like The Prestige mainly for the puzzle box. A lot of these puzzle box movies raise a lot of questions and then provide easy or cheap answers. For example, around the same time The Prestige came out, The Illusionist also came out and I hated the ending to that movie. The answer in The Prestige is, IMO, the most elegant puzzle box answer I've ever seen in all movies & TV. If you know of a better one, I'd love to hear it so I can check it out.
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Re: Inception

Postby LiQuid » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 10:40am

Really the identical twin was your ideal "puzzle box" ending? (I don't even know what that means) How was that not easy and/or cheap?
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Re: Inception

Postby slinkdickens » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 12:24pm

LiQuid wrote:
Spoiler: show
Really the identical twin was your ideal "puzzle box" ending? (I don't even know what that means) How was that not easy and/or cheap?


Probably not cool to spoil another movie other than Inception.

By puzzle box I just mean a movie that is mostly about a big mystery, but not a mystery movie where the characters are trying to solve the mystery. It's more that there are these mysterious things and the audience gets to figure them out.

Spoiler: show
The ending is not that they're identical twins. It's that they're identical twins that have dedicated their lives to sharing one life.

It's not easy or cheap because of the way it ties into all the questions made earlier in the movie while tying into the movie's theme (obsession) and without shoehorning characters into doing things out of character to fit the ending. I have not seen another ending that hits all 3 like that in, well, ever. I also think that
Spoiler: show
...there are 2 big reveals and the sci-fi one addresses the theme of obsession in an alternate way.
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Re: Inception

Postby Mr_eX » Jul 23rd, 2010 @ 5:11pm

Pretty awesome movie
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Re: Inception

Postby shadyjohnson » Jul 24th, 2010 @ 8:05pm

Halfway through the movie I made a deal with myself. I wasn't going to ask myself whether it was real or fake.

Spoiler: show
Christopher Nolan doesn't understand the neural pathways that are responsible for dream states. He sets up some simple rules that are completely fictional in the beginning that are easy for the viewer to understand and then creates the tale around it. If he wanted me to understand that it was dream, he would have. Instead, the last ten minutes of the movie are presented in a fashion that are designed to obfuscate such a realization. Any idea that I have that it was a dream or reality are fabrications that I have projected on to the movie. Also, anything that anyone saw in this thread that makes them think otherwise, is creation of their mind. A creation which will spread like a parasite, creating a false reality around the film. An inception, if you will.
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Re: Inception

Postby MrBiggs » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 10:57am

So I just read through this entire thread and I'm surprised no one picked up on something: Cobb's kids haven't aged one day throughout the entire movie. He's seemingly been on the run for years, sending presents back with his father every so often. He's been gone for so long that his children are wondering when he's coming back. If he were gone for a few months, maybe the kids wouldn't have changed, but that doesn't explain sending presents back with his dad. I got the feeling that he was gone for much longer than a couple months and yet at the end they're the exact same that they were when he was visiting his memories. That is why Inception is all a dream. The totem is a red herring.
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Re: Inception

Postby kevinep3 » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 11:46am

Well you can assume that he has been gone for years but you dont know so i feel that argument is just drawing at straws(i think thats the right saying), but after seeing it again I think the reality is really reality because in a dream you can only focus on things that are "happening" around you and things that you "see" and "hear", and so then why can characters have conversations when cobb is not even in the same country any more, it just doesnt make sense. Also with everyone saying the kids are wearing the same clothes, well of course they do, its called child labor laws and again on the not aging thing it was probably a year a most that he was away and seeing as you only see their backs till the end they could have grown but you just dont know.
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Re: Inception

Postby kenzo » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 1:47pm

MrBiggs wrote:So I just read through this entire thread and I'm surprised no one picked up on something: Cobb's kids haven't aged one day throughout the entire movie.

Are you sure you read everything? Because I remember this being touched upon multiple times.

And the film has demonstrated for us that time is relative, especially when you spend a bunch of it in a dream. You're only given the impression that it's been a long time, but the exact duration is never spelled out for you. Besides, for someone who really wants something, like to be reunited with their kids, a few months or a year or two can feel like an eternity. I'm not sold on the whole "it's a dream!" argument just because the kids look about the same age.
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Re: Inception

Postby IUMogg » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 2:28pm

I'm pretty sure they explained this in the movie but i don't remember the explanation, so if someone could enlighten me, it would be appreciated.

Spoiler: show
How does Mal appear in the dreams, if the dreams are created by an architect that is not Leo and filled in by a subconscious of someone that is not Leo? And shouldn't the baggage of other visitors in the dream seep in too, if Leo's does?
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Re: Inception

Postby LiQuid » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 2:43pm

IUMogg wrote:
Spoiler: show
How does Mal appear in the dreams, if the dreams are created by an architect that is not Leo and filled in by a subconscious of someone that is not Leo? And shouldn't the baggage of other visitors in the dream seep in too, if Leo's does?

I don't think that it was just "Cobb's baggage" it was that he was actively keeping her imprisoned in his memories and revisiting them in his own dreams. No one else on the team had that kind of obsession so there weren't any other issues.
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Re: Inception

Postby GiantAsianMan » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 5:54pm

LiQuid wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
Spoiler: show
How does Mal appear in the dreams, if the dreams are created by an architect that is not Leo and filled in by a subconscious of someone that is not Leo? And shouldn't the baggage of other visitors in the dream seep in too, if Leo's does?

I don't think that it was just "Cobb's baggage" it was that he was actively keeping her imprisoned in his memories and revisiting them in his own dreams. No one else on the team had that kind of obsession so there weren't any other issues.

Its also potentially an argument for the "it was all Cobb's dream" theory. If it is all Cobb's dream, then Mal's not infiltrating anyone else's dreams through Cobb; she's already there.
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Re: Inception

Postby indieinsd » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 6:17pm

Ok I just got back from my road trip and missed out on the main discussion but I'm going to offer up my two cents anyways...
Spoiler: show
The whole film doesn't have to be a dream for the ending to still be false. Cobb could very well still be stuck in his limbo world unable to get out and the ending is just a manifestation of his acceptance to let Mal go and/or realization that he is still dreaming and can still control his world. The whole film doesn't have to be a dream for this to be true.

The only reason Cobb couldn't see his kids (in the dream world) before is because he wouldn't let himself. Like Kenzo said, it doesn't matter how it ended anymore because Cobb has moved on. He is ready to hang out with his kids, whether they are real or dreams.


The film was fucking great. And I can't wait to see it again. Glad that it didn't disappoint, hopefully Scott Pilgrim wont either and this summer movie season can be salvaged.
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Re: Inception

Postby slinkdickens » Jul 25th, 2010 @ 8:38pm

IUMogg wrote:I'm pretty sure they explained this in the movie but i don't remember the explanation, so if someone could enlighten me, it would be appreciated.

Spoiler: show
How does Mal appear in the dreams, if the dreams are created by an architect that is not Leo and filled in by a subconscious of someone that is not Leo? And shouldn't the baggage of other visitors in the dream seep in too, if Leo's does?

Spoiler: show
The same way the target's secrets are in the dream. The idea is that one person handles the creative part of making the dream world, allowing the target to bring in their subconscious. (I think) the others on the team know they're in a dream so their subconscious doesn't populate the dream world. Mal comes in because Cobb has trouble controlling that part of his subconscious.
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Re: Inception

Postby plainclothesman » Jul 27th, 2010 @ 6:20am

Saw it yesterday, pretty much agree with whats been said. Though check out this article, its pretty much how I felt about it all. http://www.moviefone.co.uk/2010/07/19/inception-ending-theories/
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Re: Inception

Postby AJR » Jul 27th, 2010 @ 6:41pm

slinkdickens wrote:No, I'm sorry, but if renting a room in the adjacent building was all part of Mal's elaborate plan, why didn't she mention it as she was rattling off all the other crazy parts of her plan? Is that the first thought you had, that renting this room was part of the plan?


Well, yeah.

Her plan was so elaborate that it made sense to me that she’d rented the other room as a means of preventing Cobb from interfering with her plan. I don’t understand why she would explain that part. He can already see she’s in that other room, why elaborate further?
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Re: Inception

Postby theditor » Jul 27th, 2010 @ 10:08pm

Spoiler: show
The one tell i'm surprised no one else has mention is when Cobb wakes up from one of his earlier dreams, goes into the bathroom to splash water on his face, spins his totem, and then is startled by someone else entering the room (I forgot who), and knocks the top off the counter. the movement of his arm to brush it away and on the ground was framed so obviously that I took it for granted that from that moment he was in a dream.
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Re: Inception

Postby Pepto » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 2:25am

Spoiler: show
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Re: Inception

Postby kenzo » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 2:54am

Pepto wrote:
Spoiler: show

That would be a pretty convincing argument, if it weren't for the fact that in Cobb's dreams, the ring is there because he can't give up on her. But by the end of the film when he's come back to limbo, he finally lets go. So even if he is still in a dream by film's end, he doesn't necessarily have to have the ring on. He could have given up on Mal but continued to live in a dream.
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Re: Inception

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 12:30pm

Screw it, I don't feel like reading through this topic to see if this has been mentioned. ;p

I saw the film, and while I admit it was clever, I still didn't like it that much. It cheated with its own rules at times, imo.

HOWEVER: This video about the music in the film is extremely interesting. It ties in with a plot point in the film though, so if you haven't actually seen the movie, I wouldn't check out this clip.
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Re: Inception

Postby Mr_eX » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 12:51pm

jw_6179 wrote: It cheated with its own rules at times, imo.


Or did it?
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Re: Inception

Postby jw_6179 » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 1:00pm

Mr_eX wrote:
jw_6179 wrote: It cheated with its own rules at times, imo.


Or did it?


Yes, it did.

Spoiler: show
Easiest example is 'freefall wakes you up'. The car in dream level one flew off the interstate and down the embankment, all the passengers went in to freefall (And thus the zero-G time period during the second dream for Tommy from 3rd Rock From the Sun) yet it awoke none of them.
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Re: Inception

Postby Mr_eX » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 1:16pm

jw_6179 wrote:
Mr_eX wrote:
jw_6179 wrote: It cheated with its own rules at times, imo.


Or did it?


Yes, it did.

Spoiler: show
Easiest example is 'freefall wakes you up'. The car in dream level one flew off the interstate and down the embankment, all the passengers went in to freefall (And thus the zero-G time period during the second dream for Tommy from 3rd Rock From the Sun) yet it awoke none of them.


Nope
Spoiler: show
Freefall doesn't wake you up, normal fall wakes you up. There is no gravity during free fall so there is no sensation of falling. Tommy is the only one that would have woken up anyway as the others were in another dream at the time so they would have to get the kick in dream 2 to wake them up before the kick from dream 1 would work on them.
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Re: Inception

Postby indieinsd » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 1:20pm

Pepto wrote:
Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show
His ring is easily explained as his subconscience's manifestation of not being able to let Mal go. Cobb letting Mal go would result in no more Mal and thus no more ring. Also I can't really embrace the ring as a totem because it's only seen in the dream world, totems were explained as real objects that you take with into the dream world to make sure your not tricked within a false reality.


Nvrmnd, Kenzo beat me to the punch.
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Re: Inception

Postby Huxley » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 6:04am

slinkdickens wrote:Inception infographic


I dont think that picture is completely correct.

Spoiler: show
It says the 'Ice Fortress' was Eames's mind, but im sure it was actually Fischer's

When they are in the hotel room preparing to make the next dream level, they tell Fischer that they are going to go inside Browning's mind (who Eames is disguised as) BUT it is quickly pointed out that this was lie they told to get Fischer to play along and be part of their team. I think it was Arthur who said in that same scene that they were helping Fischer "break into his own subconcious".

This was the trick that made inception possible. As they discuss during the planning stages, it was important that the idea had to come from within, otherwise the mind would realise it came from someone else.

I dont think we ever saw Eames dream.
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Re: Inception

Postby LiQuid » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 7:43am

Huxley wrote:I dont think that picture is completely correct.

Spoiler: show
It says the 'Ice Fortress' was Eames's mind, but im sure it was actually Fischer's

When they are in the hotel room preparing to make the next dream level, they tell Fischer that they are going to go inside Browning's mind (who Eames is disguised as) BUT it is quickly pointed out that this was lie they told to get Fischer to play along and be part of their team. I think it was Arthur who said in that same scene that they were helping Fischer "break into his own subconcious".

This was the trick that made inception possible. As they discuss during the planning stages, it was important that the idea had to come from within, otherwise the mind would realise it came from someone else.

I dont think we ever saw Eames dream.

At no point in time during the movie did they ever enter Fischer's dream. Early in the movie they clearly spelled out that there were two parties, the dreamer and the subject, and throughout the entire dream dive, Fischer was the subject.
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Re: Inception

Postby Huxley » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 9:22am

Ok i guess we are no using spoiler tags anymore.


At no point in time during the movie did they ever enter Fischer's dream. Early in the movie they clearly spelled out that there were two parties, the dreamer and the subject, and throughout the entire dream dive, Fischer was the subject.


So when they were in the hotel room what was the whole " help him break into his own subconcious" line about? If they were about to go into Eames' mind at that point then that line doesnt make sense.
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Re: Inception

Postby LiQuid » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 9:36am

The subject's subconscious is still within the world the dreamer has constructed around it. He still has to be a willing or unknowing participant. If the subject suspects foul play and doesn't trust the dreamers and/or the guides the jig is up and they won't be able to get further into his subconscious.
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