Wherein we discuss scripted events which are broadcast over analog and digital channels.

Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Rydog » Apr 1st, 2009 @ 1:11pm

The final tally of unanswered questions.

Updated for Lost Series Finale: The End


Spoiler: show
THE REALLY BIG QUESTIONS
What makes Walt so special?
Why is pregnancy such a major issue on the island?
What does the Source mean for the world outside the island?
How/why did the Source transform the Man in Black into the smoke monster?
Why was Jack able to kill the Man in Black?

MAJOR PLOT POINTS
Who was Ilana, and how did she come to be involved with Jacob?
What is the "sickness" that the Man in Black/Smoke Monster infects people with?
Why does the Man in Black need Claire?
How did Jacob's feeble adoptive mother kill everyone on the island and blockade the well?

SECONDARY PLOT POINTS
What caused the food drop?
Who is the skeleton in the polar bear cave?
What is the significance of Ben's childhood friend Annie? What happened to her?
How did Claire survive the explosion when the mercenaries attacked the Others' town?
Who did Juliet shoot during the outrigger trip in season 5?
Why was Sayid instructed to stab the Man in Black before the latter spoke?
What was Dogen's significance in preventing the Man in Black's entry to the Temple?
What is the Man in Black's true name? What about his adoptive mother?
How did they get Ben out from under that tree?

THE AFTERLIFE
Why was Desmond going to see Ilana?
What is the meaning of Claire's music box?
Why was Ana Lucia "not ready" to join the others?
Why did Eloise try to keep Desmond quiet?
Where were Michael and Walt at the end?
Why did Ben choose to remain outside?
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby czartim » Apr 1st, 2009 @ 3:08pm

You got someone to marry you? :shock:



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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby JayShadow » Apr 1st, 2009 @ 7:17pm

You can cross off:
What happened to Aaron?
What did Sawyer tell Kate before he jumped out of the helicopter?

As for the rest of the list, I think they've made it pretty clear that the numbers and Libby probably won't be explained any further. I do think a decent chunk of this list could be clarified more by the end of the year though judging by the specific characters that will be getting flashbacks the rest of the season.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby nkarasch » Apr 2nd, 2009 @ 12:01am

Wow is this your list or did you steal it from somewhere? I forgot about a lot of those things.

Anyway, nice list. I actually printed it.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Bobafeet » Apr 2nd, 2009 @ 12:27am

Wow great list! I had forgotten about a lot of the stuff like the Clockwork Orange room and the skeleton in the polar bear cage...I hope they can get to most, if not all of these when the show ends.

As for why is Ben all messed up prior to the flight, we may get that answer next week.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Klendathu » Apr 2nd, 2009 @ 2:40am

Edit: Don't complain TL;DR if you ask that many questions. I try to be concise.
My best guesses:

IMPORTANT OVERALL PLOT CONCERNS
Who or what is Jacob?

The manifested consciousness of the island. Christian assumes his role usurping him.

What are Benjamin Linus and Charles Widmore struggling over?

Leadership, obviously.

How does the island move in time and space?

We have seen enough Star Trek not to ask such questions. Electromagnetism powers it obviously. Beyond that it is either SCIENCE or GOD. Hardly surprising in an American series, since this is the split that goes through U.S. society. Creationism vs Evolution etc. Toss a coin, see how you like it. BSG tossed the coin, fans did not like it.

What is the true nature and scope of the Dharma Initiative's research?

They are the men of Science, they need to understand and poke holes into everything unexplained. They want to take control away from whoever is the man behind the curtain currently. Science killing god, you get the idea.

Where did the frozen donkey wheel come from, and how did Dharma finally access it?

Original Island specification. Whoever built the island built that thing. Dharma did not access it! Ben blew up something to break down the final wall.

Who is Richard Alpert, what is his agenda, and why does he never appear to age?

Smoke Monster Special Power ENGAGE. Other than that, he is just a messenger passing along orders.

What is the black smoke, and what is the supposed "sickness" it infects people with?

Makes regular people int crazy Others. Tree of knowledge motive. It might be a corruption the Oceanics will eventually cleanse. Locke is immune and the Others wait for him, so maybe they await the day of their salvation form the evil balck smoke and are forced to obey it untill then.

What special significance do resurrected characters like Christian and Locke have?
Lock is salvation, Christian is providence. Personified concepts can't be killed, even if Black Smoke Ben tries very hard.

What is the significance of the four-toed statue?

Ancient cult gone bad. Just there to tell us the island has been around a while and people were on it long before. Coincidentally their architecture is the same as the wheel, so the island might have been built "retro style". If it was made in the future to travel to the past it would make sense.

Why did the balance of Ajira flight 316's passengers remain in 2007?

The Sawyer group splitting up was not supposed to happen. So as Eloise would say, the Universe corrected itself. It could have dragged Sawyer and Co. into the present, but then we would not have a Dharma story line.

CHARACTERS
What happened to Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were taken by the Others?

Tossed back into some random real world. The Matrix has them now!

What is the full backstory of Danielle Rousseau and her kidnapped daughter Alex?

She is supposed to be converted by the smoke but that did not happen. She escaped her fate. Her daughter just got taken, possibly to take Ben's place. Widmore prevented that.

Who is Libby, and is she actually important?

She's dead and unimportant.

What makes Walt so special?

He lives in the real world, knowing the island exists. He is Ben's anchor. He also was Ben's way to ensure Juliette stays on the island to get teleported to the past and operate on him, saving his life as a child. Take Walt, have leverage on Michael, the rest of the dominoes start falling.

What makes Desmond so special?

He has seen two alternate realities. He can oppose the flow of time and get away with it. He makes Charlie survive long enough to cause the O6 to be rescued and then escapes with them. He is also at the center of other events like the first crash, so that makes him important plot-wise. His love to Penny is most likely the core of the story.

Where did Kelvin Inman come from?

U.S. army, shortly before the purge because he was in Desert Storm. Regular replacement I guess.

How is Miles able to talk to dead people?

Maybe it is the island talking, not the dead directly. The way Desmond could see events, Miles can hear the echoes of events.

Where are Rose and Bernard?

Too small to be of importance right now. Presumed alive in the present.

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?

Wild Guess: Jack and Kate at the end of this season. Mostly because I would not bother the series loosing those two whiny sobs.

Who is the skeleton in the polar bear cave?

Wild guess 2: Mike the Technician

What happened to Claire?

She got promoted to being woman behind the curtain. Ties into the whole struggle for control, removing Jackob aspect.

What happened to Faraday?

He is still plotting to get his woman back. When the producers said the story was basically a love story about two persons we had not met yet, we could nitpick that Desmond was known by then. So Farady might just be crazy enough to figure out how Desmond was able to oppose the universe correcting itself (Faraday's mother idea nonetheless). With that knowledge he brings the story out of looping over and over and gives the series a proper end by rescusing his love.

What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?

Maybe just protect her son. Playing all of them from a safe distance. Stopping a pedestrian from getting shot might kill him the next day, so she resorts to more extreme measures.


MISC. PLOT POINTS
What happened to the Black Rock, and how has it affected what's going on now?
Just a wreck to loot for resources. Ultimately resulted in Dharma though. Possibly a motive of a Society of Slavers dying and a Society of Science rising. Again, the US of A come to mind.

What was the true purpose and significance of the Swan station (the hatch)?

Poke into an electromagnetic field. Once unleashed by Sawyer's group to use the incedent traveling back to the present, Dharma contained it out of fear of the unknown. In order for the probing to continue the numbers have to be entered to tie it to the "Valenzetti coordinates" the Dharmas originally calculated. Desmond ultimately destroyed it potentially altering these numbers. Dharma did not want that to happen, could not prevent it and was unable to resume the probing due to the purge. So they sustained it, knowing they were able to come back to the island and even drop supplies as long as somebody was there. Desmond removed their "anchor" so to speak.

Is there any true meaning behind the "numbers?"

They stand for the fear of the end you see coming. That's why they make people insane. Valencetti calculated the end of the world. The island can work around that

What caused the food drop?

Dharma standard issue supply run. They had people on the outside. If few of them remain, they would still supply their dirty little Swan station secret.

What's up with that crazy Clockwork Orange conditioning room?

Black Smoke low tech approach?

What's so special about the temple that Ben sends his people to?

Now we know, human flesh conversion center, powerful ally called the black smoke.

Why did Miles try to extort exactly 3.2 million dollars from Ben?

So that whatever happened happens. If Bens sends that money it will most likely appear in either Miles future or past, giving him unrestricted access to the island with no nosebleeds.

How did Ben get so bloodied up prior to boarding Ajira flight 316?

He killed Penny. He said he would do it, he knew he was going back, he even built the landing strip, so that would have been his last chance to make due on his promise. That's why Desmond is not finished with the island. He is out for bloody murder, ultimately becoming the instrument of his father in-law. Charles W. did not want Desmond in his life, probably knowing he would get his daughter killed, but the is also the man he trusts, because he can scratch an itch called Benjamin Linus. When Desmond bled from the nose, rearranging time in the process to make sure he would meet with Penny again, Charles Widmore made his men go from plan A to Plan B and kill Alex. They all go down in flames, in the end Widmore and his Grandson remain, he would rather have it had another way, but couldn't do anything. Trying to make Sun kill Linus was his last chance to prevent disaster from striking Desmond and Penny. Widmore also helps Locke knowing he is is salvation. The series might jsut end with Locke unlocking the black smoke into the white smoke and everybody gets to live out the rest of their lives in an alternate reality of their choosing. Except for the two dying in the cave staying back. Forever. Lost.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Aswankster » Apr 2nd, 2009 @ 4:55pm

Klendathu wrote:Edit: Don't complain TL;DR if you ask that many questions. I try to be concise.
My best guesses:

IMPORTANT OVERALL PLOT CONCERNS
Who or what is Jacob?

The manifested consciousness of the island. Christian assumes his role usurping him.

What are Benjamin Linus and Charles Widmore struggling over?

Leadership, obviously.

How does the island move in time and space?

We have seen enough Star Trek not to ask such questions. Electromagnetism powers it obviously. Beyond that it is either SCIENCE or GOD. Hardly surprising in an American series, since this is the split that goes through U.S. society. Creationism vs Evolution etc. Toss a coin, see how you like it. BSG tossed the coin, fans did not like it.

What is the true nature and scope of the Dharma Initiative's research?

They are the men of Science, they need to understand and poke holes into everything unexplained. They want to take control away from whoever is the man behind the curtain currently. Science killing god, you get the idea.

Where did the frozen donkey wheel come from, and how did Dharma finally access it?

Original Island specification. Whoever built the island built that thing. Dharma did not access it! Ben blew up something to break down the final wall.

Who is Richard Alpert, what is his agenda, and why does he never appear to age?

Smoke Monster Special Power ENGAGE. Other than that, he is just a messenger passing along orders.

What is the black smoke, and what is the supposed "sickness" it infects people with?

Makes regular people int crazy Others. Tree of knowledge motive. It might be a corruption the Oceanics will eventually cleanse. Locke is immune and the Others wait for him, so maybe they await the day of their salvation form the evil balck smoke and are forced to obey it untill then.

What special significance do resurrected characters like Christian and Locke have?
Lock is salvation, Christian is providence. Personified concepts can't be killed, even if Black Smoke Ben tries very hard.

What is the significance of the four-toed statue?

Ancient cult gone bad. Just there to tell us the island has been around a while and people were on it long before. Coincidentally their architecture is the same as the wheel, so the island might have been built "retro style". If it was made in the future to travel to the past it would make sense.

Why did the balance of Ajira flight 316's passengers remain in 2007?

The Sawyer group splitting up was not supposed to happen. So as Eloise would say, the Universe corrected itself. It could have dragged Sawyer and Co. into the present, but then we would not have a Dharma story line.

CHARACTERS
What happened to Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were taken by the Others?

Tossed back into some random real world. The Matrix has them now!

What is the full backstory of Danielle Rousseau and her kidnapped daughter Alex?

She is supposed to be converted by the smoke but that did not happen. She escaped her fate. Her daughter just got taken, possibly to take Ben's place. Widmore prevented that.

Who is Libby, and is she actually important?

She's dead and unimportant.

What makes Walt so special?

He lives in the real world, knowing the island exists. He is Ben's anchor. He also was Ben's way to ensure Juliette stays on the island to get teleported to the past and operate on him, saving his life as a child. Take Walt, have leverage on Michael, the rest of the dominoes start falling.

What makes Desmond so special?

He has seen two alternate realities. He can oppose the flow of time and get away with it. He makes Charlie survive long enough to cause the O6 to be rescued and then escapes with them. He is also at the center of other events like the first crash, so that makes him important plot-wise. His love to Penny is most likely the core of the story.

Where did Kelvin Inman come from?

U.S. army, shortly before the purge because he was in Desert Storm. Regular replacement I guess.

How is Miles able to talk to dead people?

Maybe it is the island talking, not the dead directly. The way Desmond could see events, Miles can hear the echoes of events.

Where are Rose and Bernard?

Too small to be of importance right now. Presumed alive in the present.

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?

Wild Guess: Jack and Kate at the end of this season. Mostly because I would not bother the series loosing those two whiny sobs.

Who is the skeleton in the polar bear cave?

Wild guess 2: Mike the Technician

What happened to Claire?

She got promoted to being woman behind the curtain. Ties into the whole struggle for control, removing Jackob aspect.

What happened to Faraday?

He is still plotting to get his woman back. When the producers said the story was basically a love story about two persons we had not met yet, we could nitpick that Desmond was known by then. So Farady might just be crazy enough to figure out how Desmond was able to oppose the universe correcting itself (Faraday's mother idea nonetheless). With that knowledge he brings the story out of looping over and over and gives the series a proper end by rescusing his love.

What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?

Maybe just protect her son. Playing all of them from a safe distance. Stopping a pedestrian from getting shot might kill him the next day, so she resorts to more extreme measures.


MISC. PLOT POINTS
What happened to the Black Rock, and how has it affected what's going on now?
Just a wreck to loot for resources. Ultimately resulted in Dharma though. Possibly a motive of a Society of Slavers dying and a Society of Science rising. Again, the US of A come to mind.

What was the true purpose and significance of the Swan station (the hatch)?

Poke into an electromagnetic field. Once unleashed by Sawyer's group to use the incedent traveling back to the present, Dharma contained it out of fear of the unknown. In order for the probing to continue the numbers have to be entered to tie it to the "Valenzetti coordinates" the Dharmas originally calculated. Desmond ultimately destroyed it potentially altering these numbers. Dharma did not want that to happen, could not prevent it and was unable to resume the probing due to the purge. So they sustained it, knowing they were able to come back to the island and even drop supplies as long as somebody was there. Desmond removed their "anchor" so to speak.

Is there any true meaning behind the "numbers?"

They stand for the fear of the end you see coming. That's why they make people insane. Valencetti calculated the end of the world. The island can work around that

What caused the food drop?

Dharma standard issue supply run. They had people on the outside. If few of them remain, they would still supply their dirty little Swan station secret.

What's up with that crazy Clockwork Orange conditioning room?

Black Smoke low tech approach?

What's so special about the temple that Ben sends his people to?

Now we know, human flesh conversion center, powerful ally called the black smoke.

Why did Miles try to extort exactly 3.2 million dollars from Ben?

So that whatever happened happens. If Bens sends that money it will most likely appear in either Miles future or past, giving him unrestricted access to the island with no nosebleeds.

How did Ben get so bloodied up prior to boarding Ajira flight 316?

He killed Penny. He said he would do it, he knew he was going back, he even built the landing strip, so that would have been his last chance to make due on his promise. That's why Desmond is not finished with the island. He is out for bloody murder, ultimately becoming the instrument of his father in-law. Charles W. did not want Desmond in his life, probably knowing he would get his daughter killed, but the is also the man he trusts, because he can scratch an itch called Benjamin Linus. When Desmond bled from the nose, rearranging time in the process to make sure he would meet with Penny again, Charles Widmore made his men go from plan A to Plan B and kill Alex. They all go down in flames, in the end Widmore and his Grandson remain, he would rather have it had another way, but couldn't do anything. Trying to make Sun kill Linus was his last chance to prevent disaster from striking Desmond and Penny. Widmore also helps Locke knowing he is is salvation. The series might jsut end with Locke unlocking the black smoke into the white smoke and everybody gets to live out the rest of their lives in an alternate reality of their choosing. Except for the two dying in the cave staying back. Forever. Lost.

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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Rydog » Apr 2nd, 2009 @ 8:01pm

Aswankster wrote:
Klendathu wrote:Edit: Don't complain TL;DR if you ask that many questions. I try to be concise.
My best guesses:

IMPORTANT OVERALL PLOT CONCERNS
Who or what is Jacob?

The manifested consciousness of the island. Christian assumes his role usurping him.

What are Benjamin Linus and Charles Widmore struggling over?

Leadership, obviously.

How does the island move in time and space?

We have seen enough Star Trek not to ask such questions. Electromagnetism powers it obviously. Beyond that it is either SCIENCE or GOD. Hardly surprising in an American series, since this is the split that goes through U.S. society. Creationism vs Evolution etc. Toss a coin, see how you like it. BSG tossed the coin, fans did not like it.

What is the true nature and scope of the Dharma Initiative's research?

They are the men of Science, they need to understand and poke holes into everything unexplained. They want to take control away from whoever is the man behind the curtain currently. Science killing god, you get the idea.

Where did the frozen donkey wheel come from, and how did Dharma finally access it?

Original Island specification. Whoever built the island built that thing. Dharma did not access it! Ben blew up something to break down the final wall.

Who is Richard Alpert, what is his agenda, and why does he never appear to age?

Smoke Monster Special Power ENGAGE. Other than that, he is just a messenger passing along orders.

What is the black smoke, and what is the supposed "sickness" it infects people with?

Makes regular people int crazy Others. Tree of knowledge motive. It might be a corruption the Oceanics will eventually cleanse. Locke is immune and the Others wait for him, so maybe they await the day of their salvation form the evil balck smoke and are forced to obey it untill then.

What special significance do resurrected characters like Christian and Locke have?
Lock is salvation, Christian is providence. Personified concepts can't be killed, even if Black Smoke Ben tries very hard.

What is the significance of the four-toed statue?

Ancient cult gone bad. Just there to tell us the island has been around a while and people were on it long before. Coincidentally their architecture is the same as the wheel, so the island might have been built "retro style". If it was made in the future to travel to the past it would make sense.

Why did the balance of Ajira flight 316's passengers remain in 2007?

The Sawyer group splitting up was not supposed to happen. So as Eloise would say, the Universe corrected itself. It could have dragged Sawyer and Co. into the present, but then we would not have a Dharma story line.

CHARACTERS
What happened to Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were taken by the Others?

Tossed back into some random real world. The Matrix has them now!

What is the full backstory of Danielle Rousseau and her kidnapped daughter Alex?

She is supposed to be converted by the smoke but that did not happen. She escaped her fate. Her daughter just got taken, possibly to take Ben's place. Widmore prevented that.

Who is Libby, and is she actually important?

She's dead and unimportant.

What makes Walt so special?

He lives in the real world, knowing the island exists. He is Ben's anchor. He also was Ben's way to ensure Juliette stays on the island to get teleported to the past and operate on him, saving his life as a child. Take Walt, have leverage on Michael, the rest of the dominoes start falling.

What makes Desmond so special?

He has seen two alternate realities. He can oppose the flow of time and get away with it. He makes Charlie survive long enough to cause the O6 to be rescued and then escapes with them. He is also at the center of other events like the first crash, so that makes him important plot-wise. His love to Penny is most likely the core of the story.

Where did Kelvin Inman come from?

U.S. army, shortly before the purge because he was in Desert Storm. Regular replacement I guess.

How is Miles able to talk to dead people?

Maybe it is the island talking, not the dead directly. The way Desmond could see events, Miles can hear the echoes of events.

Where are Rose and Bernard?

Too small to be of importance right now. Presumed alive in the present.

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?

Wild Guess: Jack and Kate at the end of this season. Mostly because I would not bother the series loosing those two whiny sobs.

Who is the skeleton in the polar bear cave?

Wild guess 2: Mike the Technician

What happened to Claire?

She got promoted to being woman behind the curtain. Ties into the whole struggle for control, removing Jackob aspect.

What happened to Faraday?

He is still plotting to get his woman back. When the producers said the story was basically a love story about two persons we had not met yet, we could nitpick that Desmond was known by then. So Farady might just be crazy enough to figure out how Desmond was able to oppose the universe correcting itself (Faraday's mother idea nonetheless). With that knowledge he brings the story out of looping over and over and gives the series a proper end by rescusing his love.

What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?

Maybe just protect her son. Playing all of them from a safe distance. Stopping a pedestrian from getting shot might kill him the next day, so she resorts to more extreme measures.


MISC. PLOT POINTS
What happened to the Black Rock, and how has it affected what's going on now?
Just a wreck to loot for resources. Ultimately resulted in Dharma though. Possibly a motive of a Society of Slavers dying and a Society of Science rising. Again, the US of A come to mind.

What was the true purpose and significance of the Swan station (the hatch)?

Poke into an electromagnetic field. Once unleashed by Sawyer's group to use the incedent traveling back to the present, Dharma contained it out of fear of the unknown. In order for the probing to continue the numbers have to be entered to tie it to the "Valenzetti coordinates" the Dharmas originally calculated. Desmond ultimately destroyed it potentially altering these numbers. Dharma did not want that to happen, could not prevent it and was unable to resume the probing due to the purge. So they sustained it, knowing they were able to come back to the island and even drop supplies as long as somebody was there. Desmond removed their "anchor" so to speak.

Is there any true meaning behind the "numbers?"

They stand for the fear of the end you see coming. That's why they make people insane. Valencetti calculated the end of the world. The island can work around that

What caused the food drop?

Dharma standard issue supply run. They had people on the outside. If few of them remain, they would still supply their dirty little Swan station secret.

What's up with that crazy Clockwork Orange conditioning room?

Black Smoke low tech approach?

What's so special about the temple that Ben sends his people to?

Now we know, human flesh conversion center, powerful ally called the black smoke.

Why did Miles try to extort exactly 3.2 million dollars from Ben?

So that whatever happened happens. If Bens sends that money it will most likely appear in either Miles future or past, giving him unrestricted access to the island with no nosebleeds.

How did Ben get so bloodied up prior to boarding Ajira flight 316?

He killed Penny. He said he would do it, he knew he was going back, he even built the landing strip, so that would have been his last chance to make due on his promise. That's why Desmond is not finished with the island. He is out for bloody murder, ultimately becoming the instrument of his father in-law. Charles W. did not want Desmond in his life, probably knowing he would get his daughter killed, but the is also the man he trusts, because he can scratch an itch called Benjamin Linus. When Desmond bled from the nose, rearranging time in the process to make sure he would meet with Penny again, Charles Widmore made his men go from plan A to Plan B and kill Alex. They all go down in flames, in the end Widmore and his Grandson remain, he would rather have it had another way, but couldn't do anything. Trying to make Sun kill Linus was his last chance to prevent disaster from striking Desmond and Penny. Widmore also helps Locke knowing he is is salvation. The series might jsut end with Locke unlocking the black smoke into the white smoke and everybody gets to live out the rest of their lives in an alternate reality of their choosing. Except for the two dying in the cave staying back. Forever. Lost.

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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby FaderCreep » Apr 3rd, 2009 @ 5:29am

I have to disagree completely. But instead of pick apart somebody elses theories which is just rude, I'll just provide my own. Here's my explanations, im just doing the ones I'm pretty sure about.

If i'm wrong, i'll cut off a toe.

Rydog wrote:Who or what is Jacob?

One of the Losties. Lost in space and time. Candidates: Farday/Jack/Locke/Desmond. Detailed a bit furhter in another thread.

Rydog wrote:What are Benjamin Linus and Charles Widmore struggling over?

Control of the island, 'favour' of the Island, Jacob's favour (like biblical sons), leadership of the hostiles. All of the above is what you get if you 'win'. Remember Ben accuses Widmore of 'breaking the rules' by murdering his daughter. Like theres a sort of code they are following in order to achieve winning status.

Rydog wrote:What is the black smoke, and what is the supposed "sickness" it infects people with?

Bar some metaphysical non-scientific explanation, im going with CATOMs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claytronics
"The forms made up of catoms could morph into nearly any object, even replicas of human beings" or a variation of. I know they've said its not 'nanobots' but im guessing nanites and catoms could be considered different by half-truth producers.

Rydog wrote:What is the significance of the four-toed statue?

Its of Richard Alpert/One of the Losties/Other well known character, that will travel in time if we go back to see Black Rock and original natives/history of Island. Or merely to show that Richard is THAT damn old.


Double Answer -
Rydog wrote:Why did some stay in the present.
What happened to Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were taken by the Others?

They are now part of the others. Probably still in The Temple waiting for Locke. We saw Cindy, she's assimilated.
The Island/writers need Locke/Ben in the present. Locke needs to now travel to the temple and meet with his people.

Rydog wrote:What makes Walt so special?

I dont think it'll be cleared up. Walts special traits are seemingly making things happen (in his flashbacks in the old seasons). By thinking about them. I thought they'd given up on him but then they have him tell Locke that he dreamed about him and 'the people in suits are trying to hurt you'.... so maybe its not a dead horse yet.

Rydog wrote:What makes Desmond so special?

He's our Dr Manhattan. Right in the centre of that blast of energy. Now the rules don't apply to him.

Rydog wrote:What happened to Claire?

We saw her. She's with Christian (Her father). And Jacob (Possibly her brother! :P)

Rydog wrote:What happened to Faraday?

He's gone nuts over charlottes death. He's going to detonate jughead/sabotage orchid, save everybody from the timeslips, cause mayhem, but fail to bring back his love (I think Charlotte is staying dead. What happened, happened)

Rydog wrote:What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?

SHE IS ELLI. A former very important hostile. Along with Charles Widmore. Aswell as being Faradays mother. On a more outside shot, if Faraday turns out to be Jacob, Eloise could be trying to save him from being lost in space and time. Jacobs first words to Locke 'help me'.

Rydog wrote:What was the true purpose and significance of the Swan station (the hatch)?

We know The Swan was set up to release the energy build ups/dangerous levels caused by The Incident (aka, FARADAY blowing shit up). FYI - the hieroglyphs on the original countdown timer mean 'Underworld'. Also, I believe JUGHEAD may have something to do with The Swan or The Orchid.

Rydog wrote:Is there any true meaning behind the "numbers?"

No. This will never be cleared up as stated by producers I believe. Its just a weird little mystery with no big answer as to how these numbers are the lottery numbers, the island numbers, etc. Any explanation would be a bit dumb at this point. It just links to the whole fate and coincidence theme of season 2. 'Do not confuse coincidence with fate' between John Locke and Ecko etc.

Rydog wrote:What's up with that crazy Clockwork Orange conditioning room?

Stupid reference that was just to do with the cultish brainwashing ways/punishment system of the hostiles. Will probably never be returned to. Nor does it need to be.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Klendathu » Apr 3rd, 2009 @ 12:13pm

Man, that would really be a crazy ending for the statue. One of the cast teleporting to the past appearing in the middle of some crazy tribal worshipers and lots of drums. We see his disturbed face, the crazy worshippers, his disturbed face, the crazy worshippers, his face again, camera slowly moving back giving us a good view of him and the statue. We see both are the same person. He sinks to his knees holding his head disappearing further into the past in a giant bright flash. Lost.

I also like that very Star Trek "island is big space alien theory" over at the other thread. Very Sci-Fi, very TNG pilot episode like, it would just work for me.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby czartim » Apr 3rd, 2009 @ 6:22pm

Aswankster wrote:
Klendathu wrote:Edit: Don't complain TL;DR if you ask that many questions. I try to be concise.
My best guesses:

IMPORTANT OVERALL PLOT CONCERNS
Who or what is Jacob?

The manifested consciousness of the island. Christian assumes his role usurping him.

What are Benjamin Linus and Charles Widmore struggling over?

Leadership, obviously.

How does the island move in time and space?

We have seen enough Star Trek not to ask such questions. Electromagnetism powers it obviously. Beyond that it is either SCIENCE or GOD. Hardly surprising in an American series, since this is the split that goes through U.S. society. Creationism vs Evolution etc. Toss a coin, see how you like it. BSG tossed the coin, fans did not like it.

What is the true nature and scope of the Dharma Initiative's research?

They are the men of Science, they need to understand and poke holes into everything unexplained. They want to take control away from whoever is the man behind the curtain currently. Science killing god, you get the idea.

Where did the frozen donkey wheel come from, and how did Dharma finally access it?

Original Island specification. Whoever built the island built that thing. Dharma did not access it! Ben blew up something to break down the final wall.

Who is Richard Alpert, what is his agenda, and why does he never appear to age?

Smoke Monster Special Power ENGAGE. Other than that, he is just a messenger passing along orders.

What is the black smoke, and what is the supposed "sickness" it infects people with?

Makes regular people int crazy Others. Tree of knowledge motive. It might be a corruption the Oceanics will eventually cleanse. Locke is immune and the Others wait for him, so maybe they await the day of their salvation form the evil balck smoke and are forced to obey it untill then.

What special significance do resurrected characters like Christian and Locke have?
Lock is salvation, Christian is providence. Personified concepts can't be killed, even if Black Smoke Ben tries very hard.

What is the significance of the four-toed statue?

Ancient cult gone bad. Just there to tell us the island has been around a while and people were on it long before. Coincidentally their architecture is the same as the wheel, so the island might have been built "retro style". If it was made in the future to travel to the past it would make sense.

Why did the balance of Ajira flight 316's passengers remain in 2007?

The Sawyer group splitting up was not supposed to happen. So as Eloise would say, the Universe corrected itself. It could have dragged Sawyer and Co. into the present, but then we would not have a Dharma story line.

CHARACTERS
What happened to Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were taken by the Others?

Tossed back into some random real world. The Matrix has them now!

What is the full backstory of Danielle Rousseau and her kidnapped daughter Alex?

She is supposed to be converted by the smoke but that did not happen. She escaped her fate. Her daughter just got taken, possibly to take Ben's place. Widmore prevented that.

Who is Libby, and is she actually important?

She's dead and unimportant.

What makes Walt so special?

He lives in the real world, knowing the island exists. He is Ben's anchor. He also was Ben's way to ensure Juliette stays on the island to get teleported to the past and operate on him, saving his life as a child. Take Walt, have leverage on Michael, the rest of the dominoes start falling.

What makes Desmond so special?

He has seen two alternate realities. He can oppose the flow of time and get away with it. He makes Charlie survive long enough to cause the O6 to be rescued and then escapes with them. He is also at the center of other events like the first crash, so that makes him important plot-wise. His love to Penny is most likely the core of the story.

Where did Kelvin Inman come from?

U.S. army, shortly before the purge because he was in Desert Storm. Regular replacement I guess.

How is Miles able to talk to dead people?

Maybe it is the island talking, not the dead directly. The way Desmond could see events, Miles can hear the echoes of events.

Where are Rose and Bernard?

Too small to be of importance right now. Presumed alive in the present.

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?

Wild Guess: Jack and Kate at the end of this season. Mostly because I would not bother the series loosing those two whiny sobs.

Who is the skeleton in the polar bear cave?

Wild guess 2: Mike the Technician

What happened to Claire?

She got promoted to being woman behind the curtain. Ties into the whole struggle for control, removing Jackob aspect.

What happened to Faraday?

He is still plotting to get his woman back. When the producers said the story was basically a love story about two persons we had not met yet, we could nitpick that Desmond was known by then. So Farady might just be crazy enough to figure out how Desmond was able to oppose the universe correcting itself (Faraday's mother idea nonetheless). With that knowledge he brings the story out of looping over and over and gives the series a proper end by rescusing his love.

What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?

Maybe just protect her son. Playing all of them from a safe distance. Stopping a pedestrian from getting shot might kill him the next day, so she resorts to more extreme measures.


MISC. PLOT POINTS
What happened to the Black Rock, and how has it affected what's going on now?
Just a wreck to loot for resources. Ultimately resulted in Dharma though. Possibly a motive of a Society of Slavers dying and a Society of Science rising. Again, the US of A come to mind.

What was the true purpose and significance of the Swan station (the hatch)?

Poke into an electromagnetic field. Once unleashed by Sawyer's group to use the incedent traveling back to the present, Dharma contained it out of fear of the unknown. In order for the probing to continue the numbers have to be entered to tie it to the "Valenzetti coordinates" the Dharmas originally calculated. Desmond ultimately destroyed it potentially altering these numbers. Dharma did not want that to happen, could not prevent it and was unable to resume the probing due to the purge. So they sustained it, knowing they were able to come back to the island and even drop supplies as long as somebody was there. Desmond removed their "anchor" so to speak.

Is there any true meaning behind the "numbers?"

They stand for the fear of the end you see coming. That's why they make people insane. Valencetti calculated the end of the world. The island can work around that

What caused the food drop?

Dharma standard issue supply run. They had people on the outside. If few of them remain, they would still supply their dirty little Swan station secret.

What's up with that crazy Clockwork Orange conditioning room?

Black Smoke low tech approach?

What's so special about the temple that Ben sends his people to?

Now we know, human flesh conversion center, powerful ally called the black smoke.

Why did Miles try to extort exactly 3.2 million dollars from Ben?

So that whatever happened happens. If Bens sends that money it will most likely appear in either Miles future or past, giving him unrestricted access to the island with no nosebleeds.

How did Ben get so bloodied up prior to boarding Ajira flight 316?

He killed Penny. He said he would do it, he knew he was going back, he even built the landing strip, so that would have been his last chance to make due on his promise. That's why Desmond is not finished with the island. He is out for bloody murder, ultimately becoming the instrument of his father in-law. Charles W. did not want Desmond in his life, probably knowing he would get his daughter killed, but the is also the man he trusts, because he can scratch an itch called Benjamin Linus. When Desmond bled from the nose, rearranging time in the process to make sure he would meet with Penny again, Charles Widmore made his men go from plan A to Plan B and kill Alex. They all go down in flames, in the end Widmore and his Grandson remain, he would rather have it had another way, but couldn't do anything. Trying to make Sun kill Linus was his last chance to prevent disaster from striking Desmond and Penny. Widmore also helps Locke knowing he is is salvation. The series might jsut end with Locke unlocking the black smoke into the white smoke and everybody gets to live out the rest of their lives in an alternate reality of their choosing. Except for the two dying in the cave staying back. Forever. Lost.

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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby mtcantor » Apr 4th, 2009 @ 10:36pm

Pele Merengue wrote:no.






... wait, what?


*golf clap*
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby mrblonde2099 » Apr 9th, 2009 @ 1:43pm

A few of my theories:

Why is pregnancy such a major issue on the island?


Perhaps it has something to do with a release of electromagnetic energy during the "incident" that is spoken of in the Swan orientation film. In it, Dr. Chang says something to the effect of, "We push this button to release energy at regular intervals to prevent another incident."

Where are Rose and Bernard?


and

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?


During the fire arrow raid at the beach earlier this season, Rose and Bernard ran off with most of the castaways. After they successfully evaded the attack, they were left in the jungle to survive. They realized that finding fresh, drinkable water would be essential for that survival, so they made their way to caves from season 1. The subsequent time jumps (flashes) that occured, affected them the same way that Charlotte was affected. They figured that they wouldn't make it alive, so they decided to die in each other's embrace in a rock bed inside the cave. In season 1, Jack says that the bodies have been there for about 50 years. Could they have died in the 1954 instance of the island where Locke first approached Richard Alpert?

What happened to Faraday?


He is still working in the Orchid station where we saw him in the first scene of this season. He is trying to gain further understanding of the electromagnetic/time traveling properties of the island under the guise of a DHARMA janitor.

What is Eloise Hawking's stake in all of this?


We know from "He's Our You" that she had shared control of the island with Widmore back before the days of DHARMA. We also know that she has helped the O6 return to the island via Ajira flight 316. If she was in cahoots with Widmore on the island pre-Ben Linus, why would she help him get back to the island in 2007? Could it be that she is still associating with Widmore off island in 2007? I think so. The only reason she helped Ben fly the O6 to the island is so that she can get another one of Widmore's people back to the island. She knew that the only way to get back to the island was to re-create the crash of Oceanic flight 815, so that's why she needed to help Ben. Could it be that Ilana is that Widmore mole? That riddle she gave Lapidus in the most recent episode leads me to believe so. Widmore could've imbued Ilana with that riddle to get her to the Others HQ in hopes of having her speak on his behalf to Richard Alpert about somehow allowing Widmore's return to the island.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby czartim » Apr 9th, 2009 @ 8:55pm

mrblonde2099 wrote:
Where are Rose and Bernard?


and

Who are the two skeletons in the cave?


During the fire arrow raid at the beach earlier this season, Rose and Bernard ran off with most of the castaways. After they successfully evaded the attack, they were left in the jungle to survive. They realized that finding fresh, drinkable water would be essential for that survival, so they made their way to caves from season 1. The subsequent time jumps (flashes) that occured, affected them the same way that Charlotte was affected. They figured that they wouldn't make it alive, so they decided to die in each other's embrace in a rock bed inside the cave. In season 1, Jack says that the bodies have been there for about 50 years. Could they have died in the 1954 instance of the island where Locke first approached Richard Alpert?

That would mean that they would have had to have been on the island when they were young; that was the only reason Charlotte died. I do agree that the skeletons are them, I just don't think they died during the flashes.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby mrblonde2099 » Apr 9th, 2009 @ 9:58pm

That would mean that they would have had to have been on the island when they were young; that was the only reason Charlotte died. I do agree that the skeletons are them, I just don't think they died during the flashes.

Not necessarily. Juliet had the same nosebleeds, and i think its safe to say that she had nothing to do with the island before she was recruited by Richard Alpert.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby czartim » Apr 9th, 2009 @ 10:37pm

mrblonde2099 wrote:
That would mean that they would have had to have been on the island when they were young; that was the only reason Charlotte died. I do agree that the skeletons are them, I just don't think they died during the flashes.

Not necessarily. Juliet had the same nosebleeds, and i think its safe to say that she had nothing to do with the island before she was recruited by Richard Alpert.

But they established that the longer you have been on the island, the quicker your condition deteriorates. Sawyer, Rose, and Bernard would have had them the least since they were on the island for the least amount of time. Juliet was worse since she had been on the island for several years, and Charlotte died since she had been there so many years ago.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby mrblonde2099 » Apr 10th, 2009 @ 10:09am

czartim wrote:
mrblonde2099 wrote:
That would mean that they would have had to have been on the island when they were young; that was the only reason Charlotte died. I do agree that the skeletons are them, I just don't think they died during the flashes.

Not necessarily. Juliet had the same nosebleeds, and i think its safe to say that she had nothing to do with the island before she was recruited by Richard Alpert.

But they established that the longer you have been on the island, the quicker your condition deteriorates. Sawyer, Rose, and Bernard would have had them the least since they were on the island for the least amount of time. Juliet was worse since she had been on the island for several years, and Charlotte died since she had been there so many years ago.


Good point. Very true :)
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby exfate » Apr 12th, 2009 @ 9:36pm

These seem like pretty important questions you missed Ryan:

Why can't Ben and Charles Widmore kill each other? (The obvious answer is because, what happened, happened. However, there is yet to be an explicit explanation.)

If Charles Widmore knows who Eloise Hawking is and where she is, why did he struggle to find the island? Why won't she help him? Or, why is he unable to return using her methods?

How did the black horse (as seen by Kate and Sawyer in S1 or S2 -- I forget) come to be on the island and why?

What was the incident specifically? What were the effects? What caused the experimental reactor at the Swan station (sealed off behind concrete walls) to go wrong?

Why did Dharma build a door with a rock wall behind it? (Seen at the end of S2)
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby czartim » Apr 13th, 2009 @ 4:45am

exfate wrote:These seem like pretty important questions you missed Ryan:

Why can't Ben and Charles Widmore kill each other? (The obvious answer is because, what happened, happened. However, there is yet to be an explicit explanation.)

If Charles Widmore knows who Eloise Hawking is and where she is, why did he struggle to find the island? Why won't she help him? Or, why is he unable to return using her methods?

How did the black horse (as seen by Kate and Sawyer in S1 or S2 -- I forget) come to be on the island and why?

What was the incident specifically? What were the effects? What caused the experimental reactor at the Swan station (sealed off behind concrete walls) to go wrong?

Why did Dharma build a door with a rock wall behind it? (Seen at the end of S2)

The horse wasn't real. It was the Island projecting something meaningful to Kate. (Think dead people appearing.)

The incident will be explained this season.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby JayShadow » Apr 13th, 2009 @ 10:20am

exfate wrote:Why did Dharma build a door with a rock wall behind it? (Seen at the end of S2)
I'm pretty sure the others built that to maintain the illusion of there being a real hatch there since the camp was a decoy.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Mr_eX » Apr 14th, 2009 @ 10:16am

Not sure if this has been brought up but the monk that fired Desmond in season 3 had a picture of Eloise on his desk. So what's his deal?
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Harry MacKenzie » Apr 15th, 2009 @ 6:47pm

Looks like we just found out why Miles asked Ben for $3.2 million.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby second2one » Apr 18th, 2009 @ 4:27pm

So when is Miles going to go talk to the two skeletons in the cave? Thats where the real answers are.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Klendathu » Apr 20th, 2009 @ 4:52am

Again, why would Eloise need to send these guys? Ben is leading the others on the island, last time Eloise was on friendly terms with Ben, so why would she send people to wage war? Sure, she could hatch an insane "I have to pretend to help Ben only to save my son by getting Locke back on the island and lead conspirators at the same time". But I doubt that.

The real connection is Sayid. He shot the guy on the Golf course. That triggered the woman to capture him. Ben said those were Widmore's guys, so we have to assume the people now trying to get on the island are Widmore's group is some capacity. Maybe Widmore lost control of part of his crew when he failed to capture the island with his mercenary crew. The war is then between "moderate others" trying to live in peace with people on the island and "extremist others" trying to kill everybody who does not pass their test. Those two conflicting sides of "the others" are present for a long time now in the series.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Nobbyworks » Apr 20th, 2009 @ 3:18pm

Klendathu wrote:Again, why would Eloise need to send these guys? Ben is leading the others on the island, last time Eloise was on friendly terms with Ben, so why would she send people to wage war? Sure, she could hatch an insane "I have to pretend to help Ben only to save my son by getting Locke back on the island and lead conspirators at the same time". But I doubt that.

The real connection is Sayid. He shot the guy on the Golf course. That triggered the woman to capture him. Ben said those were Widmore's guys, so we have to assume the people now trying to get on the island are Widmore's group is some capacity. Maybe Widmore lost control of part of his crew when he failed to capture the island with his mercenary crew. The war is then between "moderate others" trying to live in peace with people on the island and "extremist others" trying to kill everybody who does not pass their test. Those two conflicting sides of "the others" are present for a long time now in the series.


They could be tied to modern day Dharma and/or Hanso.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Nobbyworks » Apr 20th, 2009 @ 3:22pm

Colasante wrote:There is also the fact that Illana and Bram were both on Ajira Flight 316, a flight which only Eloise and Ben knew about, so it's almost certain that one of the two of them had to be behind their being on it.


It could be that they were on the flight just by "fate." That seems to be implied with the Oceanic 6, since Sayid didn't know that the flight was bound for the Island. Then again Illana could've known.

So really, the question is why was Frank on the flight. Was that fate or a coincidence, or was he placed on it by someone in the know pulling strings at the airline?

Personally I'm more inclined to believe the latter, which would imply that Sayid was intentionally placed on the flight as well: by Illana, or whoever she's working for.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Klendathu » Apr 22nd, 2009 @ 1:31am

Got another idea.

The episode "Some like it Hoth" started with the microwave oven showing the time 3:16, which as we know was the Flight number for the returning Oceanic 6. Looking at their crash landing again, I noticed the co-pilot heard the broadcast of the original numbers on his radio.

After the crash Ceasar tries to wake Illana with the words "Hey Katy" as if he knew her. Both seem to be genuinely puzzled. Only when they appear alongside Bram later, they appear changed and all conspiracy. So what if Bram is the one doing the recruiting along the guidelines of a second set of numbers? The war is then between people whose fate is tied to the original set of numbers and people whose fate is determined by a second set.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby KindGalaxy » May 7th, 2009 @ 5:13am

Lost

It teaches us that we are masters of our own destiny, our own future. It teaches us that we control our future through the deeds of our present which become our history. Good education, good guidance, good future. Poor education, poor guidance, poor future. Good morals lead to good rewards, bad fidelity lead to bad enjoyments. It teaches us that we control our 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 year futures through the deeds we do, the education we have in the short span of 13-28 years old; these are the years that define our entire lives. Lost teaches us to endure, expand, enjoy the present, to have a successful future; a future present. That is the meaning of Lost. That is the message of lost. That is the mystery of Lost.

As hard as it is to understand the future, to want, desire, dream of our future selves, it is not through anything but hard word do we have a future we desire, dream of. We are forever lost in finding this future, this desire, this dream, the harder we work, the higher the dream; we are forever lost in the mystery of Lost.

We are left in the last 24 hours with visages of a battered Sawyer, an exhausted Hurley, a frantic Dr. Chang, a beleaguered Ben and a wishful John. They are lost, they follow the path as they always do, to do what the past has taught them to prepare for the future in the present. They will do what they do, as we do what we do, without knowledge of the future, but faith in our present to give us the future we have in our mind's eyes.

Lost teaches us that the future is a wave, and we control the wave in our present, with our knowledge of the past, to ensure the future is a smooth ride and not a hurricane.

Anyway, it's a cool show.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Klendathu » May 7th, 2009 @ 6:12am

Lost also heavily relies on destiny.

Eloise shot her own son and found out later that even if she prevented things, the universe would always correct itself and the person would die the next day. She taught that to Desmond, who met her after turning the key, causing an encore of the incident. Suddenly Desmond seemed to be free but Eloise did ensure the event occurred in her past as she remembered it. She talked Desmond out of his freedom of choice by presenting him a deterministic universe. It also seems the incident links the past of Eloise with a present she no longer knows anything about. So the incident happens at two points of time. 30 years in the past with Dr. Chang and in the present with Locke killing Jakob.

Present Richard Alpert thinks the Oceanic6 in the past all died, but Faraday thinks he can kill the entire timeline of them crashing. The latter is not possible, since it would cancel out Faraday's whole existence as he knows it. So making their own destiny by preventing the plane crash is off the table. It is more likely Richard Alpert believes the Oceanic6 to be dead, when they have been teleported back to the present instead. (to finally end this time travel season)

I also think Faraday has another trick up his sleeve. We did not see him talk to Charlotte, for all we know he told her something different than he was "supposed" to. So while the whole past is eradicated in the incident, Charlotte can somehow pull him through. There was much emphasis on Faraday wanting "to create time" and Eliose hoped he would be able to do it.

Maybe that is what the incident really does. Create time, create freedom of choice nobody would otherwise have. Just like Desmond though he had this real second chance when he turned the key. The series is then a struggle to rid people of the deterministic universe. This freedom, however, is a limited resource and by competing for it, the people involved loose all their freedom. They are Lost. Jakob is a symbol for that deterministic universe, he is the man allegedly pulling the strings, that is why Locke wants to kill them, so the others can finally create their own destiny.
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Re: Lost: A handy guide to unsolved mysteries

Postby Valke » May 16th, 2009 @ 12:15am

Rydog wrote:
JACOB

What is the "loophole" that Jacob's enemy and faux-Locke refer to?


It may be a matter of not being able to directly kill each other. I'm sensing a parallel between Jacob/his enemy and Ben/Widmore
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