Wherein we discuss scripted events which are broadcast over analog and digital channels.

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 11:38am

jw_6179 wrote:ugh.


EDIT - Originally said "Kill yourself" but that's a bit harsh. But saying an argument and ending with "ugh" is fucking tumblr-tier.

I got the mary sue vibe as well, but only initially in the moment when Finn meets her - as a character she's flawed; as flawed as Luke was in the OG trilogy. Kenzo's right, if she's considered a mary sue, he's definitely a gary stu. I thought she was really well done. None of that cringe-worthy YEAH, GIRL POWER! we see in shows like Supergirl or from what I've heard about the newer Mad Max.

Also what the hell is with that guy's hair? Did he cut it himself?
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby jw_6179 » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 8:13pm

kenzo wrote:1) Do you complain about Luke Skywalker being a Gary Stu? Because if you never thought that, you're holding a double standard.
You mean the guy who repeatedly gets himself in over his head while thinking with his lower head, repeatedly requires people to bail his ass out, washes out of his training and only "wins" in the end because his dad can't stand watching him be slowly murdered before his very own eyes?

By Episode VIII, I expect Rey to dance up the leg of an AT-AT, kill twelve stormtroopers while barely even acknowledging their existance, then shoots a few shots in the head before riding down it like surfing a wave and it blows up behind her doing the "Cool guys don't look back" while Finn goes "That still only counts as one!"



You know, like other totally-not hyper-competent-at-everything-they-do-to-the-point-they-are-fucking-boring-and-obnoxious characters like Legolas. I'm really excited to see her arc as a hero going from point A to point A.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby CrossXhunteR » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 8:32pm

You sound angry about this. Chill out.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a "Mary Sue" or a character that can just be good at doing shit. It can be nice to watch someone be competent instead of being an abject failure. Just watch any comic book movie. Fun people doing fun things. FUN!
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby jw_6179 » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 8:36pm

CrossXhunteR wrote:You sound angry about this. Chill out.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a "Mary Sue" or a character that can just be good at doing shit. It can be nice to watch someone be competent instead of being an abject failure. Just watch any comic book movie. Fun people doing fun things. FUN!


Wait, of the two replies on this page, the one that you decide is "angry" is the one that isn't "Kill yourself"?

Neat. Real mystery why I come 'round these parts often.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby CrossXhunteR » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 8:39pm

Sure. Never said she wasn't angry. Thanks for reading the rest of my post.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby Jenn04 » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 8:56pm

Most places on the internet use that phrase for dismissal of something - it's not taken literally. I didn't mean it literally. I'm not angry at all; I just think your point is a total non-issue here. Your second detailed post about the film also tells me you're incredibly outraged about a very minor thing. If you want goofy bumbling women don't worry, Ghostbusters is coming out soon.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby Mr_eX » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 10:16pm

jw_6179 wrote:
kenzo wrote:1) Do you complain about Luke Skywalker being a Gary Stu? Because if you never thought that, you're holding a double standard.
You mean the guy who repeatedly gets himself in over his head while thinking with his lower head, repeatedly requires people to bail his ass out, washes out of his training and only "wins" in the end because his dad can't stand watching him be slowly murdered before his very own eyes?


Luke was the farm boy that just happened to be the best pilot in the universe, rescued the princess and was the only one able to get a 1 in a billion shot to destroy the death star.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby kenzo » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 10:31pm

He's also literally space Jesus
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby jw_6179 » Dec 21st, 2015 @ 11:04pm

Mr_eX wrote:Luke was the farm boy that just happened to be the best pilot in the universe, rescued the princess and was the only one able to get a 1 in a billion shot to destroy the death star.


The best pilot in the universe who was as good as dead until his reluctant friend Han Solo pulled his ass out of the fire so he didn't die like every other rebel pilot who went down that trench and got toasted by Darth Vader, rescuing the princess all alone except for the help of all his companions where his father figure died and he had to watch helplessly, in an escape that totally wasn't the Stormtroopers jobbing because they just had to make it look good enough so they could follow them to the hidden rebel base.

kenzo wrote:He's also literally space Jesus


Pretty sure space Jesus would be the guy who was immaculately conceived by the Holy Force Ghost in the three movies that people think are absolute fucking dreck.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby dakazu » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 1:59am

I think it's hilarious that people are arguing about Rey when they could be arguing about how stupid the CGI villian is :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby DarthEnder » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 2:20am

I have only two nerdy nitpicks with the whole movie.

Spoiler: show
1. Han has never in the last 40ish years of being Chewie's best friend ever fired his gun before?

2. Why is Rey the one to hug it out with Leia when they get back at the end of the movie? They've never met each other before. I get that her husband just died, but why would she turn to this complete stranger for consolation in that moment?


Everything else was great.

Honestly, given the way he was a 50 foot hologram, I have a sneaking suspicion that Snoak is actually going to be something else entirely when we see him in person. My current prediction is a Dark Side member of Yoda's race.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby paullam15 » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 7:36am

In regards to Rey and overall criticism of episode 7
Spoiler: show
I don't buy how quickly Rey picks up on the Force and lightsaber. In comparison to how Luke progressed as a Jedi in the original trilogy, episode 7 trivializes to a certain degree the amount of training needed to learn the force and lightsaber. This leads me to think Rey is some type of chosen one who is extremely acute to the force which is a predictable and lazy call back to the prequel trilogy. My biggest criticism with episode 7 is how all the major story beats is pretty much taken from the New Hope and a little bit of Return of the Jedi.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby kenzo » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 8:02pm

jw_6179 wrote:Pretty sure space Jesus would be the guy who was immaculately conceived by the Holy Force Ghost in the three movies that people think are absolute fucking dreck.
I don't remember the part in the Bible where Jesus slaughters a bunch of defenseless children.

Darth Vader isn't Space Jesus, he's pretty clearly the Space Anti-Christ, who shows up pretending to be the savior but then leads everyone down the wrong path.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby Mr_eX » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 8:52pm

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-spreading-this-nonsense-that-rey-from-star-1749134275

This entire mary sue thing might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Last edited by Mr_eX on Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 9:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby DarthEnder » Dec 22nd, 2015 @ 9:02pm

I don't have a problem with either Rey or Finn being able to use a lightsaber right off the bat.

Spoiler: show
Finn is a trained Stormtrooper and Rey is really skilled with that staff. Yeah, that's not a lightsaber, but they're both at least proficient melee combatants already. Which is more than you can say for moisture farmer Luke.

Combine that with the fact that Kylo Ren had a wookie bullet in his kidney, I doesn't bother me that she was able to overpower him.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby LiQuid » Mar 22nd, 2016 @ 10:27pm

Finally saw it. It was pretty gud. Finn was so awesome. So was Rey. So was Broe, or at least what little we saw of him. All the new characters are awesome. BB8 was literally Jar Jar but at least they had the decency to omit him from the heavier parts of the movie.

I highly agree with anybody that said they played this safe and swiped plot elements directly from the OT, but that doesn't bother me. It was nice to see a good Star Wars movie again, which is something that hasn't happened in almost as long as I've been alive.

I vehemently disagree with anybody that says Rey was a Mary Sue. I thought the argument was stupid prior to even seeing it, but after having seen it I can only imagine it was a lot of misogynist tripe to try and cut her down for being a competent lady in a leading role. Troll harder next time, trolls.

If anything was peculiar it was how well Finn was able to hold his own against Emo Ren, given that they didn't establish him as having any particular force sensitivity and with almost no lightsaber practice.

Speaking of lightsabering, I was so pleased to see them return to a more grounded, realistic style of duel instead of all the weeb ass fucking ninja flip garbage from the prequel trilogy. I still think Ren's dumb lightsaber hilt is stupid, but it fits his stupid tryhard personality so well it doesn't even bother me.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby DarthEnder » Mar 23rd, 2016 @ 4:13pm

LiQuid wrote:If anything was peculiar it was how well Finn was able to hold his own against Emo Ren, given that they didn't establish him as having any particular force sensitivity and with almost no lightsaber practice.
Well, the explanation his background gives is that, as a stormtrooper, he's a trained melee combatant.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby LiQuid » Mar 23rd, 2016 @ 4:15pm

Ya but like Darth Solo can just force push his ass or some shit. I guess this movie did kind of go out of it's way to make storm troopers seem a little more savage. Still seems like he shouldn't have lasted as long as he did.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Postby GiantAsianMan » Mar 23rd, 2016 @ 7:04pm

I think it was less Finn's ability and more Kylo Ren's inability in that moment. He's highly emotional (and not entirely stable to begin with) and has a laser blast wound in his torso. Not ideal fighting conditions. Earlier in the movie, when he's (seemingly) more in control, he wipes the floor with Finn. But at the specific moment, he has no control and thus isn't focused enough to handily beat a lesser opponent.
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