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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby darfox8 » Mar 24th, 2016 @ 11:37pm

Had to log in here because I don't want to enter the Spoiler Channel in Discord to write up a comprehensive thing about BvS.

Movie is OK. Has some pretty stellar action, as you might expect, and some good touches here or there but it really isn't THE NEXT LEVEL. I always considered Man of Steel- Batman Begins tier. Not because I hate BB but because I thought it was a good set up and it got me ready for THE NEXT LEVEL. We got it for BB and that was The Dark Knight. Probably still my all time favorite superhero flix. This isn't TDK for Man of Steel. I recommend you watch it if you want to see some pretty larger than life characters doing some entertaining stuff, but if you're not into the spectacle then maybe skip it or wait for streaming/on demand, because pacing and plot has issues.

This movie is more enjoyable than Man of Steel. Much more humor and playfulness through out. Slightly less self serious. That's not to say that it's bright and sunny. It has the Snyder look and much of the humor is dark. None of the humor is quippy our awkward stammering meant to be charming. If you can't tell I'm trying to say it doesn't attempt to emulate the Marvel brand of humor. Perry White(still played by Larry Fish) is kind of like a realistic version of J. Jonah Jameson. He yells, tears into his employees, and shoots them down with sarcastic and condescending comments. That shit was funny and entertaining. In Man of Steel he was kinda just a pragmatic guy, in this movie they used him to inject a little more energy into the scenes.

Almost all the cast is used very well. Some have tiny rolls so whatever, they don't count. The big question marks were Batman, Wonder Woman, and Lex. They all good. Won't say any of them steal the show because I've heard people say Gal steals it and I've also heard she ruins the movie. That kinda talk is counter productive at this point. She was good and I want to see her more.

That last point leads me to my last point before I spoiler tag some stuff. The point isn't about the movie but about the reviews. You cannot convince me that these reviewers are not cowards and are only doing this because they know critical/public support is not with Zack Snyder or Man of Steel. The level of hyperbolic nonsense would be hilarious if it wasn't grossly bias. Not bias in terms on Marvel and DC but bias in terms of safe targets or not. Half the shit people say about this movie applies to most Marvel movies, imo. The shit Tony Stark does in the first Iron Man is down right scary and offensive(landing out of the blue and executing terrorist and then flying away). Extremely politically charged as well. That movie gets to put fun music to it and draw hero shots out of it. BvS makes it a plot point and a serious issue and yet somehow BvS is the damaging, fascist, wanton male power fantasies? Well it is, but so is nearly all of comic books. It's like people only dare put on their thinking cap when it comes to MoS or BvS. Any Marvel movie is just good fun apparently, and if anybody tries to draw out the obvious and gross political undertones of those movies they're an SJW or something. Most of these critics don't want that fight; but with BvS the fight is fixed, the fighter is taking a fall in the third round, they're ready to rumble. The only reaction you could possibly have to the stream of hyperbolic reviews was the stream of OOHHHH! reaction gifs. Fat black kid mouth agape rocking back and forth, rap battle victory, Pinocchio face down in shallow water, and so many more. All of them spot on and appropriate for the vitriolic reviews this movie got. I'm only bitter about it because I prefer it when people are honest all the time, not just when it's easy.

Alright, spent way too much on reviews and shit. Some spoilies and question I have:
Spoiler: show
Meta Human file was pretty cool but kind of a lazy way to introduce extended universe. Batman has his work cut out for him, literally.

They did a Batman Superman fight right. A lot of preparations and booby traps.

Barely caught what The Flash was saying. He said A LOT. I think he said Lois is the key. Would make sense after the dream sequence.

Speaking of which, pretty cool. Funny how Batman using guns criticism was all nightmare stuff.

Bats definitely kills fools. But only a few direct kills. I'm so over people freaking out over Bats killing. I only care if it's a direct part of the plot, like it was in TDK.

Doomsday was ok as a huge target. Really tough, did a good job of making all three of them necessary to stop him. Did yaw catch the stupid comment Anderson Cooper made about the work day being over so the City is abandoned? Literally no one in this city because it's past 5PM. Time to blow it up. People wanted stupid comments like that in MoS but that movie was too good for it. Gods fight let the peeps die.

I didn't get/catch what Luther said to Batman in the cell, in the end. Did he basically say he was working for Darkseid? Honestly missed all of it. Pls explain.

Much like Lois and Clark making out at the end of MoS was a little to soon, the scene in BvS when Bruce and Clark are making out in is a little too soon. Naw I wish, but I'm referring to him saying, "I'm a friend of your sons." and him saying at the end that he failed him and shit like that. I'm ok with Batman coming around to Supes before the end of the movie but I felt like he was totally in love with him by the end of it.

Supes "dying" was ok I guess. If you have Doomsday and not have him kill Supes then you'll have to bring him back to kill Supes. Might as well get it over with now.

"The world doesn't make sense unless you force it to." I'm pretty sure is a direct line from The Dark Knight Returns. Supes getting shriveled up by the nuke is def from TDKR. Batman reaching through the wall and grabbing the guy's machine gun and using it on the other guy is also right out of TDKR. I'm pretty sure "I'll kill her", "I believe you." is also from that very same scene if not another one. That's all I caught, besides the obvious stuff from the trailer. I wonder how much more Frank Miller shit Zack jerked off into this movie.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby LiQuid » Mar 25th, 2016 @ 12:47am

Was Aquaman even in the movie? I don't think I heard anybody mention him.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby kenzo » Mar 25th, 2016 @ 1:30am

I enjoyed this write up. It's going to be the only thing about the movie I will allow myself to read before watching.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Master Higgins » Mar 25th, 2016 @ 12:05pm

Dar,

Spoiler: show
Yeah, the part with Lex at the end, he knows Darkseid is coming. The music could be a reference to Final Crisis, but his "ding ding ding ding ding ding!" is 100% him emulating a Mother Box (which we saw Silas Stone use one to create Cyborg).
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby dakazu » Mar 25th, 2016 @ 7:20pm

It was OK
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Mr_eX » Mar 26th, 2016 @ 1:35pm

It was bad
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Master Higgins » Mar 26th, 2016 @ 6:09pm

Go watch it a 2nd time, it's so much better the second time around.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby LiQuid » Mar 26th, 2016 @ 6:38pm

There's no way that's even possible.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Mr_eX » Mar 26th, 2016 @ 9:21pm

I like Zack Snyder movies for the most part but this one is bad. The story just kind of jumps around with no real cohesion so nothing really feels earned. Especially towards the end when
Spoiler: show
Batman is about to kill Superman but Superman says his mom's name, which happens to be Batmans mom's name which made Batman switch sides. It was really stupid and the scene treated the audience like idiots and had to cut to a flashback showing Batman's mom get killed for like the 2nd or 3rd time in the movie. Why would Superman call his mom Martha in that scene anyway? Wouldn't any normal person had said "My mom is going to die" or something similar?
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby darfox8 » Mar 26th, 2016 @ 10:32pm

That's one of the various things about the movie that was a good idea but wasn't really executed well, imo.
Spoiler: show
If Batman is representative of all Man of Steel haters he needed something to get over a deep disdain and distrust he has for Superman. In the same way the audience dislikes this version of Superman. The haters refuse to interpret Superman as a regular person, like you or I, who may be having a hard time with this whole "being a god" thing. Essentially the haters and Batman do not relate to Superman. That one random thing they have in common threw Batman off and allowed him to perceive Superman as a son of a mother. Not as a god like being.

If Batman and Superman need to team up eventually, Batman needs to get over his cynicism. He doesn't hate Supes because he's a bad guy he hates him because he might one day be one, and that is too risky. To team up with him Bats needs to believe in Supes and needs to have faith that he will always act in accordance to justice. He has been burned in the past, "How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?", he needs to get over his hang ups and move on. It's all really quite corny but appropriate imo. Also not what people make this movie out to be. Unfortunately it is not portrayed in the clearest manner. Conceptually great but kinda random in execution.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby dakazu » Mar 27th, 2016 @ 2:19am

/alltalk is gonna be interesting
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby LiQuid » Mar 27th, 2016 @ 4:30am

dakazu wrote:/alltalk is gonna be interesting

LiQuid wrote:There's no way that's even possible.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby dakazu » Mar 27th, 2016 @ 4:02pm

Welp that happened. Hope Kevin can recover from the disagreement we had.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Fade2Black » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 3:08pm

Master Higgins wrote:Go watch it a 2nd time, it's so much better the second time around.

Nope. I gave it a C+ when we saw it on Monday, and I gave it a C+ when we saw it again on Thursday. Most of that "+" was for Wonder Woman.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby slinkdickens » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 4:29pm

I think this Richard Roeper review sums how how I feel about the movie pretty nicely. Especially what he says about the strong opening. I even turned to my buddy during the movie and said, "wow, that was a helluva an opening!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxzsMB ... tu.be&t=32
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby slinkdickens » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 4:33pm

LiQuid wrote:Was Aquaman even in the movie? I don't think I heard anybody mention him.


Spoiler: show
It is soooo corny when he shows up. It's supposed to be some Lex Luthor secret file from some submarine video. Aquaman looks like he's totally posing for a selfie when the sub finds him.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby totoro » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 4:44pm

Master Higgins wrote:Go watch it a 2nd time, it's so much better the second time around.


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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby slinkdickens » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 4:57pm

Mr_eX wrote:I like Zack Snyder movies for the most part but this one is bad. The story just kind of jumps around with no real cohesion so nothing really feels earned. Especially towards the end when
Spoiler: show
Batman is about to kill Superman but Superman says his mom's name, which happens to be Batmans mom's name which made Batman switch sides. It was really stupid and the scene treated the audience like idiots and had to cut to a flashback showing Batman's mom get killed for like the 2nd or 3rd time in the movie. Why would Superman call his mom Martha in that scene anyway? Wouldn't any normal person had said "My mom is going to die" or something similar?


Spoiler: show
Yeah, I thought that was awkward as well. Who calls their mother by her first name, especially when you about to die?
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Fade2Black » Mar 28th, 2016 @ 5:37pm

slinkdickens wrote:
Mr_eX wrote:I like Zack Snyder movies for the most part but this one is bad. The story just kind of jumps around with no real cohesion so nothing really feels earned. Especially towards the end when
Spoiler: show
Batman is about to kill Superman but Superman says his mom's name, which happens to be Batmans mom's name which made Batman switch sides. It was really stupid and the scene treated the audience like idiots and had to cut to a flashback showing Batman's mom get killed for like the 2nd or 3rd time in the movie. Why would Superman call his mom Martha in that scene anyway? Wouldn't any normal person had said "My mom is going to die" or something similar?


Spoiler: show
Yeah, I thought that was awkward as well. Who calls their mother by her first name, especially when you about to die?

Spoiler: show
The most plausible explanation I've heard (not that it somehow atones for the scene's corniness) is that Superman is still being protective of his Clark Kent identity, possibly even out of habit. Whenever he dons the Superman cape, he distances himself from those he's close to as Clark Kent. By referring to her as "Martha" as opposed to "mom", he avoids affiliating her with his Clark Kent persona.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby slinkdickens » Mar 29th, 2016 @ 11:02am

Fade2Black wrote:
slinkdickens wrote:
Mr_eX wrote:I like Zack Snyder movies for the most part but this one is bad. The story just kind of jumps around with no real cohesion so nothing really feels earned. Especially towards the end when
Spoiler: show
Batman is about to kill Superman but Superman says his mom's name, which happens to be Batmans mom's name which made Batman switch sides. It was really stupid and the scene treated the audience like idiots and had to cut to a flashback showing Batman's mom get killed for like the 2nd or 3rd time in the movie. Why would Superman call his mom Martha in that scene anyway? Wouldn't any normal person had said "My mom is going to die" or something similar?


Spoiler: show
Yeah, I thought that was awkward as well. Who calls their mother by her first name, especially when you about to die?

Spoiler: show
The most plausible explanation I've heard (not that it somehow atones for the scene's corniness) is that Superman is still being protective of his Clark Kent identity, possibly even out of habit. Whenever he dons the Superman cape, he distances himself from those he's close to as Clark Kent. By referring to her as "Martha" as opposed to "mom", he avoids affiliating her with his Clark Kent persona.


Yeah, that makes sense. It's so easy to forget that Superman is even trying to have a secret identity since he never hides his face and thinks glasses are an awesome disguise.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby jw_6179 » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 3:13am

You can argue about "indirect" killings all you want but

Spoiler: show
The Batplane does a strafing run like an A-10 Warthog on a pick-up truck like it's a fucking ISIS target. Those guys were fucking dead, they were shot the fuck up, the car exploded from the 35mm rounds that ripped through it, those guys were fucking deader than shit. You can't go "Oh, comic book reality!" You didn't see guys roll out, there were no little parachutes like a G.I. Joe cartoon, Batman totally fucking killed those guys. In the building, sure, he just beat them to the point their vegetative state would be an economic detriment to society, but are technically not dead. But those guys outside were deader than shit. I mean, compare it to The Dark Knight: The Joker knows that "killing is a choice", and Batman is loathe to do it. Batman tries to stare down/scare the Joker with his motorcycle in a game of chicken, but at the end of the day, swerves and fucks his own shit up bad to save the Joker's life. The Joker starts strolling up to finish off Bats, but then an incognito Jim Gordon comes forward and arrests him, saving Bat's life. But this new Batman? He'd have made the Joker in to a fucking paste on the road. "Hey, I didn't kill him. The motorcycle did"?


as to why they didn't cut the scene

Spoiler: show
It was important to show Batman getting stopped by Superman. Supes came down and shit on Batman, which further fuels his fear that Superman is possibly some sort of authoritarian God who will meddle in the lives of the "little people" (Or as little as Batman is.) What doesn't make any goddamn sense is why cut out a potentially OTHER great action scene where Batman apparently got in to a massive fight (If you go by the amount of shell casings littering the basketball court) at Lex Corp. Go cut out some other wankery in that first 1.5 hours and replace it with an exciting action scene that furthers the plot, not grumpy Batman waking up from a bad nap.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby BeowolfSchaefer » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 6:15am

"It's easy to make a good superhero movie like Marvel consistently has, DC has the guts to not try and do that"
Ryan Higgins, Comics Conspiracy Podcast - March 2016
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby CrossXhunteR » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 6:47am

Higgins should not be allowed to talk about DC movies without a lawyer present.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby BeowolfSchaefer » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 6:49am

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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby totoro » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 8:34am

BeowolfSchaefer wrote:"It's easy to make a good superhero movie like Marvel consistently has, DC has the guts to not try and do that"
Ryan Higgins, Comics Conspiracy Podcast - March 2016

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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby jw_6179 » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 9:41am

Oh, one more thing, since Bryce complained about Gotham being across the bay from Metropolis:

Bizarrely enough, in DC Comics they are across the bay from one another, the Delaware bay/Delaware river. Metropolis is set in fuckin' Delaware for some reason, and Gotham is over in New Jersey.

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It's a Small Wonder after all, eh?
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby LiQuid » Mar 30th, 2016 @ 9:41am

I get Higgins' sentiment, to a degree. Marvel movies are just about the safest, most vanilla superhero movies imaginable. They're formulaic and easily contained in a tidy, 2 hour run time and you can set your watch to their plot beats. DC is trying to build an entirely new mythology around its iconic characters and not only do a majority of the people that watch them hate the changes, but the amount of screen time that needs to be eaten up trying to fit in all the nonsense makes these DC movies so horribly paced that they're challenging to enjoy as sheer popcorn entertainment by anyone but the most ardent comic fans.

All that said, I still think Goyer is a problem. He has been a problem since Nolan's Batman movies. A lot of people have deluded themselves into not realizing that the plots of the Batman movies were bloated and messy as well. Nothing has changed. It was just easier to forgive I supposed, due of Nolan's focused, singular take on Batman and the fact that those movies weren't trying to build a mythology.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby kenzo » Mar 31st, 2016 @ 11:16pm

Just got back from watching Batman vs Superman.

BvS might be the greatest film of all time.
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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby Mr_eX » Apr 1st, 2016 @ 6:23am

kenzo wrote:Just got back from watching Batman vs Superman.

BvS might be the greatest film of all time.


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Re: Batman v Superman

Postby kenzo » Apr 1st, 2016 @ 6:30am

Say that to my face IRL, tough guy.

BvS is a triumph of cinema and one of mankind's greatest accomplishments.
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