Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Rydog » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 10:13pm

This week's episode is all about San Diego Comic-Con and Ryan Higgins' horrible alien logic about everything. Special thanks to British listener Edward Cook for flying like 37 hours from the UK just to be on the Geekbox!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Cris » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 10:57pm

Limbo is too short for $15.

Comparing it to movies is dumb because part of the value of movies is the huge screen and speakers and stuff. (plus you can actually go to the cinema for like $5 on weekdays so it's supply and demand for seats)

Why pay $15 for a 2 hour game when I can buy amazing games like bioshock used for that price?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 11:27pm

Both the Ryan's are wrong.

@RyDog Game value SHOULD be discussed. If you're putting your art [or product] out there for the public then it should be appraised. It let's designers know what the audience wants and the limits of how they should design their game. See also: Call of Duty Map Packs.


@Ryan Higgins The fact that you think every game should bend to this magical price in your head screams of what is wrong with Activision, Indie Games, PSN/XBLA/WiiWare and the penny pinching gaming nerds [i'm including myself] who argue pointlessly on the internet.

I would love to see Star Craft 2 released for free and every unit and every command being a pay downloadible item...just to show people who harbor thoughts like yours -- why they are wrong. Because of this unwillingness to support games of your interest until it reaches some ridiculous price point that only you know...game companies either decide to overcharge to cover their money grubbing asses or they go the nickel and dime route. Downloadible games are games. There are some retail games that should have been DLC [cough ODST cough].

Good show. Good to hear Karen get as pissed as me, but it was disappointing to hear Ryan Scott and a couple other podcast personalities last week blabber on about why gamers should just shut up about game price. Last time I checked gamers control the market. And we want games to be better in quality, so if anything we should discuss issues like that in reasonable manners.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Cris » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 11:36pm

Super Street Fighter 4 is extremely balanced.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 11:37pm

Supplementary: Street Fighter fans should never comment on the advancements or lack thereof in regards to Tekken and vice versa. It makes you sound like a child, "I don't know anything about that game, but its bad and I don't like it." Really? You got a degree homie. This is coming from someone who competitively plays both games.

And it goes without saying, don't ever compare an RTS to a Fighting game. Summing up a game sequel that hasn't come out in 10 years to, "Oh, it'll just be another one." Like I said dude...you got a degree...I expect better...oh wait. This is the same guy who quit Assassin's Creed 2 because it was too hard.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby GhaleonQ » Jul 28th, 2010 @ 11:42pm

Ryan, 2 far better puzzle games that "do what [Limbo] does" made by my hobby horse/true artists/thing with which I annoy people/the best developer ever, Love-De-Lic:
L.O.L.: Lack Of Love is like Spore if it was made by artists instead of programmers. It's about ecology and conservation, and it's quite moving.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SketchesOfM ... 07DE02DB02
U.F.O.: A Day In The Life is like Pokemon Snap combined with The Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask. It's about how people determine their lives, and it's hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SketchesOfM ... BD54634F3F
I think U.F.O.'s the better game, but L.O.L. is more well-known. Both are Japan-only but, obviously, have less than 15 lines between them. Both totally outclass Limbo and any puzzle game from this generation except Bangai-O Spirits. Everyone should love them, but it sounds like they match Ryan's purview.

I'm surprised Karen suggested Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind, since they already dismissed the relatively stonefaced Brick for being "too clever/cute." It's just on the tasteful side of twee. Plus, Ruffalo costarred in The Brothers Bloom, Johnson's (stellar) next movie, so residual hatred may affect it/The Avengers.

Come on, Fitch. Tekken dominates Japan's arcades. I know you go on about Street Fighters 2 and 4 and Soul Calibur, Ryan, but what others do you play? The Last Blade? Virtua Fighter? Rival Schools? What's your history?

Karen, additional television from this decade: The League Of Gentlemen, Psychoville, Black Books, F.M., Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, Man To Man With Dean Learner, Asylum, Free Agents, The Mighty Boosh, Nathan Barley, The Office, Catterick, 15 Storeys High.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby uppi17 » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:36am

That list of TV shows is far too long. I'd strip out:
F.M. - rather boring sitcom based in a radio station. Except without any jokes.
Man To Man With Dean Learner - A poor version of Alan Partridge
Asylum - The people from Spaced making the mistakes that they'll learn from & produce something actually funny the next time around
Nathan Barley - The start of when Chris Morris became Not As Funny As He Used To Be
The Office - Ricky Gervais being that one character Ricky Gervais is (i.e. Not Funny)
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby flufflogic » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 1:27am

uppi17 wrote:That list of TV shows is far too long. I'd strip out:
F.M. - rather boring sitcom based in a radio station. Except without any jokes.
Man To Man With Dean Learner - A poor version of Alan Partridge
Asylum - The people from Spaced making the mistakes that they'll learn from & produce something actually funny the next time around
Nathan Barley - The start of when Chris Morris became Not As Funny As He Used To Be
The Office - Ricky Gervais being that one character Ricky Gervais is (i.e. Not Funny)

I'll second those removals, as what is left is pure awesome.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Huxley » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 3:11am

Limbo is great but its nothing revolutionary, just extremely well crafted. I think Braid is a good comparison because both games avoid repetition by constantly introducing new twists on the basic gameplay.

It is digital only, but for small indie developers digital is the perfect format. It is too risky to put something on shelves that isn't mass market. The average game shop patron would not be in the Limbo or Braid demographic. Higgins should except the reality of the market and not stubbornly refuse to download *any* game simply because he prefers a dvd copy.

However I would say physical games are superior because of the resale value. Also, unless you have 'god-tier' broadband, its easier to get a dvd posted through your letter box and install it in 2 minutes than to have your bandwidth hogged for several hours.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby PantslessJedi » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 3:34am

Judging by the conversation thus far, this geekbox will be legen..

wait for it.

dary.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Huxley » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 5:00am

Limbo is too short for $15.

Comparing it to movies is dumb because part of the value of movies is the huge screen and speakers and stuff. (plus you can actually go to the cinema for like $5 on weekdays so it's supply and demand for seats)

Why pay $15 for a 2 hour game when I can buy amazing games like bioshock used for that price?


Its funny how you justify cinema prices for arbitary reasons but dismss Limbo out of hand for equally arbitary reasons. Why not judge something on its own merits?

Seeing as how you love anologies, here is another - Consider Wine. Some people dont buy expensive wine because they think all wine tastes the same and in the end their goal is just to get drunk as fast as possible.

Certain games require refined tastes.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby cool_wizard » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 5:43am

fyi The Thick of it is an AWESOME show. Just finished watching the third season. it was great.

Also on the subject of UK tv, Garth Meringis Darkplace was effing awesome silly.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby GiantAsianMan » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 6:03am

re: Burn Notice prequel- from what they've said, no other current cast members will be seen in the movie. The story will be about Sam's last mission and about how he went from Sam the soldier to Sam the mojito-drinking, aloha shirt-wearing guy we see now. Michael Weston may appear at the near, as a cameo, but he's not slated to be a main character in the movie.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Lord-Audie » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 7:34am

This is what do i have to say about to say about the Limbo $15 dollar argument.

Super Mario Bros: Less than 5 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwIEqNWykzM

Legend of Zelda: Less than 30 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgbR_GWzWWs

Super Mario Bros 3: Less than 12 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz3BuYYhnn0

I know they are tool assisted, but achieving that same kind of speed on the retail ver shouldn't be that far off.

So all those games should be 5 dollars whey they came out higgins?

That argument is flawed. A game is good regardless of price or not. Games have been ruined because they were artificially extended.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby drunner2 » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 8:25am

Was anyone else bothered by the gross misuse of the word "ignorant" in this episode? Cause, damn, Orwell would have an aneurysm.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby Master Higgins » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 9:31am

drunner2 wrote:Was anyone else bothered by the gross misuse of the word "ignorant" in this episode? Cause, damn, Orwell would have an aneurysm.


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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby lemon-fresh » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 10:30am

Bboy_Izilla wrote:Supplementary: Street Fighter fans should never comment on the advancements or lack thereof in regards to Tekken and vice versa. It makes you sound like a child, "I don't know anything about that game, but its bad and I don't like it." Really? You got a degree homie. This is coming from someone who competitively plays both games.

And it goes without saying, don't ever compare an RTS to a Fighting game. Summing up a game sequel that hasn't come out in 10 years to, "Oh, it'll just be another one." Like I said dude...you got a degree...I expect better...oh wait. This is the same guy who quit Assassin's Creed 2 because it was too hard.


Somebody call the whaaaaaaaaambulance!!!!

Also, I don't have an issue with limbo's price specifically but how MS is beginning to jack the prices of xbl titles in general. Get ready! Shits about to get expensive!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby BEARinaMANSUIT » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 11:10am

Now Higgins is the sassy one? Who's next? First it's Fitch with Simpsons, now it's Higgins with Digital Distribution, I want some Scott LoL sass. Where Fitch failed to sway me to his side, I have to agree with Higgins, I do love my boxed copies, and I can't see not getting them aside from Steam sales. I would gladly pay $15 for Limbo if they sent me something to put on my shelf, but I'll have nothing to show for that money after I beat the game and never touch it again aside from lost space on my hard drive. Lost space on my shelf is a good thing, on my hard drive, not so much. I also agree with Collector's Editions, I love that shit. It's a good thing I don't have money or my room would be filled with shit I don't need and games I've never played. I'd have this sweet Pandora's Box from God of War III, I wanted that thing so badly.

After that I forgot what I came here to actually say.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby lemon-fresh » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 11:28am

Thank goodness this isn't going to happen... Let go of your dust collecting pieces of cardboard and plastic. It's all a waste of space...

Plus the digital way I get games the moment they are released and never have to interact with gamestop staff.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby BEARinaMANSUIT » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 11:44am

I get games when they're released from Amazon and don't have to deal with Gamestop staff, and it's shipped a day or two after release. I don't mind waiting a day or two, I don't need instant gratification. Downloading shit is a pain, I'd gladly wait two days for a game in the mail rather than hours for an 8 gig download to finish. My logic is flawed, but I don't care.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby drunner2 » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 11:46am

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby BEARinaMANSUIT » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 11:47am

Oh yes, for Karen:

What did Higgins lack knowledge in? How was his position uneducated or unsophisticated?

I didn't see him as doing anything of the sort. I think you were misunderstanding when he said it wasn't a game. He didn't say it wasn't a game because it was $15, he said it wasn't a game because Ryan Scott explained how minimalistic it was. So many things were being said at once that two of his sentences ran together and it came out sounding like he said what you thought he said. I think that's the part you thought was ignorant, maybe I'm wrong and he did mean that, I don't know.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby flufflogic » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:30pm

Digital distribution, in particular Steam and XBLA, are a fantastic replacement of bricks and mortar;I can log into either from any compatible machine anywhere and have access to my stuff. Sure, with XBLA I have to do a license transfer for the hardware to do it properly, but still!

And yeah, the Limbo argument is pretty silly. I mean, I'm skint and I don't feel ripped off by the 1200MSP it cost me. It was great, and I'll be coming back to it plenty to try for that less than 5 deaths run, just like I keep going back to Trials.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby jinpei05 » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:39pm

Cris wrote:Limbo is too short for $15.

Comparing it to movies is dumb because part of the value of movies is the huge screen and speakers and stuff. (plus you can actually go to the cinema for like $5 on weekdays so it's supply and demand for seats)

Why pay $15 for a 2 hour game when I can buy amazing games like bioshock used for that price?


Oh really? Then, please, by all means, show us the direct corollary between the length of the game and its true monetary value.

Oh, wait, that's right. You can't, because the length-to-cost ratio is, at best, an arbitrary system.

Have you even played Limbo?

You talk as though going to a movie is a universal value for all. What about going to an IMAX or 3D film? What if the theater you go to is not a AMC Theaters film and they do not offer $5 tickets before 5pm? What if the film you see turns out to suck or is just "meh?" How is a ticket price a fair value under these circumstances?

Cris wrote:Super Street Fighter 4 is extremely balanced.


I'm going to assume you're saying these incredibly ignorant things to troll. That would excuse these statements...barely.

If the SSF4 were balanced, what is the point of having character rankings?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby flufflogic » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:41pm

The cinema argument dies when you see that a Pixar movie costs the same as a Saw movie; the latter is longer, the former better, both cost the same.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby WickedCobra03 » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:42pm

Lord-Audie wrote:This is what do i have to say about to say about the Limbo $15 dollar argument.

Super Mario Bros: Less than 5 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwIEqNWykzM

Legend of Zelda: Less than 30 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgbR_GWzWWs

Super Mario Bros 3: Less than 12 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz3BuYYhnn0

I know they are tool assisted, but achieving that same kind of speed on the retail ver shouldn't be that far off.

So all those games should be 5 dollars whey they came out higgins?

That argument is flawed. A game is good regardless of price or not. Games have been ruined because they were artificially extended.
I get both sides of the argument. Personally, I just don't like setting a precedent in that the new $5 went up to $10, and is now $15. MS is price gauging now. It keeps going up and up here and they are really selling more than enough to make a few bucks off of it. And really, your argument kind of flops. And all three of these games I can almost guarantee you that it took most people more than 3 hours to beat these the first time.

BTW, I wanted to post in the forums this week instead of the comments since I am a pretty big fan. You said a few weeks ago that most of the commentators are a little more of the casual crowd. I am not really mad or angry that you generalized, just found it funny. I just post in the comments because it is easier and more up front.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby LiQuid » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:42pm

The biggest reason I love digital distro is that it's always there. I'm lazy and a drunk. I don't have the motivation to be swapping discs all night when I'm moving among my old standby games. This is why I would pay again to double dip for digital version of my favorite disc based games like Super Street Fighter 4 and Modern Warfare 2. I would play both of those games a lot more than I already do if they were just sitting there on my hard drive.

I wish there was some way we could buy a license or something that we can full install our boxed retail games to our HDD and not have to worry about swapping the disc back in. I understand why they don't want to do this. You could install the game and then just sell it to some other schmuck. I do think they need to start offering us the choice when we buy our games though. I like having shit on my nerd shelves as much as the next dork, but there is a definite case to argue for both sides. With Microsoft's Games on Demand in place and hard drive sized getting up there, the means are there. I think they just need to straight up offer us the choice for every new game, $60 for the boxed, retail version, or $40, or whatever the equivalent is after publisher cost is recalibrated, for a straight up digital only version.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby LiQuid » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:47pm

jinpei05 wrote:Oh, wait, that's right. You can't, because the length-to-cost ratio is, at best, an arbitrary system.

Have you even played Limbo?

length:cost is just one way of putting it. I'd prefer "value:cost" What is my dollar buying me? It's one thing when I'm paying $15 for a game I'm gonna play multiple times a week for going on years now (SSF2THDR) to the tune of hundreds of hours, and a game that I'm going to play for a single sitting and then never again. I haven't put Braid on since after that first week of buying it. It's just been sitting on my HDD doing nothing for me for over a year now. I have no desire to put it back on. It's just sitting there constantly reminding me that I suck at speed runs. Though I haven't played Limbo I know god damned well it's going to be the exact same situation. I'm gonna play it for a night or two, love it, but then it's going to just sit around for years reminding me that I suck for not being able to get through the game without dying less than five times.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby flufflogic » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:53pm

WickedCobra03 wrote:I get both sides of the argument. Personally, I just don't like setting a precedent in that the new $5 went up to $10, and is now $15. MS is price gauging now. It keeps going up and up here and they are really selling more than enough to make a few bucks off of it. And really, your argument kind of flops. And all three of these games I can almost guarantee you that it took most people more than 3 hours to beat these the first time.


I remember when games on Live came out at 800 and dropped to 400 permanently when they went to a sort of greatest hits collection. I agree totally MS is price gouging now; the thing is, I want the game, and I still don't think it's unreasonable.

I do wish they'd bring back the permanent discount on titles above a certain age and sales level, though.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 76

Postby LiQuid » Jul 29th, 2010 @ 12:56pm

DotW is pretty much the only reason I ever buy XBLA games anymore, aside from shit that I really, really want. Like even though initial impressions are lukewarm, I'll probably pick up Castlevania next week (a game with some multiplayer that I might actually get some replay value out of! Hey-O!).
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