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The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 1:04am

This week, I talk about beating Demon's Souls. And Justin sounds like he might actually give the game a chance now. Oh, and Street Fighter II is pretty much officially dead in the U.S. -- that kinda sucks!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Konanda » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 1:16am

Karen MIA again? Also Amsterdam and Pokemon Black/White talk has me intrigued. Still working on my living Pokedex for 4th gen. It's all breeding and grinding from here, with the exception of Deoxys. Hopefully they'll do an even sometime.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby kenzo » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 5:57am

Good episode so far. Liking Justin more and more with each episode. Guess it just takes a while to get used to new shit.

Har har, Metal Gear joke.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Syed117 » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 8:49am

I think Ryan's assessment of Demon's Souls' difficulty isn't reliable at all!

Of course it won't seem difficult when you read a walkthrough before every section and know what to expect and which mistakes to not make.

I'm sure it would be significantly harder if someone went in blind and tried to figure everything out themselves. It's a game that can easily be "gamed" if you know what you are doing.

I think I've figured out Ryan's preference when it comes to difficult games. It has to be something that is either memorization based like mega man or something where the gameplay difficulty can be circumvented by using a walkthrough.

Thats why he hates something like the xbox version of Ninja Gaiden. That game is completely skill based and demands a lot from the player. You can't get through by memorizing enemy location and actions because everything is so dynamic. You have to react differently to every encounter and the combat itself it hard enough that a walkthrough would be meaningless if you can't defeat simple enemies.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Lord-Audie » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 9:08am

is a SSF4 Game Night Incoming ????
Please join the #geekbox IRC channel at irc.rizon.net

for a quick browser way use http://webchat.rizon.net/

Just put a nick and #geekbox and GO! join the pHuN
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Begaria » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 10:22am

I've been listening to the Geekbox for awhile now, but this episode was the first time I felt compelled to register on the forums to discuss an episode. I'm listening to it right now and I just have to say it:

I've got five adamant armors that I farmed in the Final Fantasy IV remake. It took me a lot of saving, reloading, several trips to purchase sirens (and use all of my gil in the process), and several days worth of farming, but it was well worth it. On my two subsequent new game pluses, having five adamant armors is so fun, especially when you take a crack at the two secret bosses.

Also, I've completed Demon's Souls twice. Magic is overpowered in that game and the game is extremely managable when you use your ranged spells. Take it slow, keep your shield up, boost your mana, and let the spell flinging commence.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Syed117 » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 10:50am

Wow. I had posted my first comment before listening to the episode and you guys pretty much said exactly what I posted. Damn.

Anyway. I'm a bit saddened by Ryans "cheapness" when it comes to success in games. Like me, he's a slightly older gamer and I think people who have been gaming for decades tend to have core skills that the young kids don't have these days. I almost expect younger people to apply cheap tactics to win, but seeing older people using those kinds of tactics makes me sad.

Have to side completely with Alice when she was giving Ryan shit for turtling and waiting for the timer to run out in street fighter.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby lemon-fresh » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 11:33am

Lord-Audie wrote:is a SSF4 Game Night Incoming ????


Whaaaa? I really need to listen to this episode. I think we should at least try and throw mvc3 into the mix so people can hopefully improve their game while we all suck. I'm tired of dominating 90% of people at sf4.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby achickenchaser » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 11:57am

Syed117 wrote:I think Ryan's assessment of Demon's Souls' difficulty isn't reliable at all!

Of course it won't seem difficult when you read a walkthrough before every section and know what to expect and which mistakes to not make.

I'm sure it would be significantly harder if someone went in blind and tried to figure everything out themselves. It's a game that can easily be "gamed" if you know what you are doing.


What does guy have to do to prove his gaming manhood to some people around here? Beat Ikaruga with one life while blindfolded?


and...

You know you can turtle in Marvel Vs Capcom. It's more like playing keep away than the typical Street Fighter trutling. Maybe Ryan should give it a try.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Mr_eX » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 11:58am

The fact that Ryan couldn't get through the Assassin's Creed 2 tutorial negates the fact that he finished Demon's Souls.

I'm a little surprised that the X-Men trailer wasn't brought up.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby flufflogic » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 12:14pm

Syed117 wrote:Wow. I had posted my first comment before listening to the episode and you guys pretty much said exactly what I posted. Damn.

Anyway. I'm a bit saddened by Ryans "cheapness" when it comes to success in games. Like me, he's a slightly older gamer and I think people who have been gaming for decades tend to have core skills that the young kids don't have these days. I almost expect younger people to apply cheap tactics to win, but seeing older people using those kinds of tactics makes me sad.

Have to side completely with Alice when she was giving Ryan shit for turtling and waiting for the timer to run out in street fighter.


It still mystifies my (age 6) son how much ass I kick at Mario Kart Wii if I use the controller/nunchuck setup. He finds it utterly impossible to use in any other way than wheel, as he doesn't understand at all how a thumbstick works.

Curse you, Nintendo. If all future consoles have to be motion controlled to be usable by little kids, you will have destroyed a skill you made necessary, AGAIN.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby jinpei05 » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 12:17pm

I'm not sure what Ryan Scott is talking about. Street Fighter II has never been part of EVO2K ever since its inception in 2003. Does he mean Super Street Fighter II Turbo (HD Remix)?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby lemon-fresh » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 12:26pm

I would assume he meant superturbo or hdremix. Saying sf2 is much easier for the layman to understand.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby jinpei05 » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 12:29pm

That makes more sense. This still isn't such a big deal as Ryan makes it out to be.
Last edited by jinpei05 on Feb 17th, 2011 @ 1:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Creep » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 12:33pm

I wonder what kind of "flip knife" Ryan carries around. It's always interesting to see the different kinds of stuff people pack into the pockets on a daily basis. I carry a skeletool, mostly for the bottle opener. The knife does come in handy from time to time as well.

It's a Benchmade pocket knife with a quick release thumb stud. Basically this, but a little different (I don't see my exact knife on here; I've had it for probably 8-9 years, and they probably don't make this particular model anymore). I have lots of knives and junk. I'd carry a butterfly knife if it were legal in California.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby lemon-fresh » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 2:08pm

jinpei05 wrote:That makes more sense. This still isn't such a big deal as Ryan makes it out to be.


Guess I'll have to listen to the episode.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Konanda » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 2:54pm

Alice and Master Higgins, there is another way to get Celebi in the near future. From Feb 21st until March 5th EB Games/Gamestop is running a Celebi distribution event. Also there is going to be a Nintendo Wi-Fi distribution of Victini from March 6th until April 10th for Black/White. Victini being the first pokemon in the Unova Pokedex.

Also the Zodiac Spear in FFXII is still obtainable if you opened those chests earlier. Basically there is two locations. The one you guys are referring to is the easy to get early game one, although given where the license for the Zodiac Spear you are not going to be able to use it for a while. (unless you farm license points early on) The second is later in the game and requires the player to have unlocked the Henne Mines Phase 2 Dig site by completing a certain hunt, having 10 espers and talking to a guy in Jahara. However the specific chest this second Zodiac Spear is in only has a 10% chance of appearing, a 10% chance of containing an item and a 10% chance the item is the Zodiac Spear. Meaning there is a 1/1000 chance you will get that spear. Meaning some reloading a save until you get it.

That said the Zodiac Spear, may be the most powerful weapon in the game, but it's not the best. The best weapon is the Masamune when you use it wearing Genji Gaunlets. This is because it has a very high combo rate when you have both items. Meaning even though it does less damage it does combo attacks 10 times as often as the Zodiac Spear without Genji Gaunlets and 18 times as often with Genji Gaunlets. (70% chance compared to Zodiac Spear's 4%) which results in the damage actually being dealt being much higher because of the very high combo rate.

The Masamune is much easier to get, since it is just a hunt reward and can also be synthesized at the bazzar. Also you really should play FFXII, it's an excellent game in the series.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby lemon-fresh » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 3:40pm

I really enjoyed the combat system/pacing of 12 and the story was kinda lackluster but good enough. I also never used the gambit system much and I was still able to mash x to great success for most of the game. I found that a good trick was to cast berserk on one of your strong warriors and then watch as they run from your party and kill monsters in the surrounding area.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby kenzo » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 3:50pm

Syed117 wrote:Thats why he hates something like the xbox version of Ninja Gaiden. That game is completely skill based and demands a lot from the player.
There's nothing skill-based about avoiding projectiles thrown at you by enemies that are off-screen.

Mr_eX wrote:The fact that Ryan couldn't get through the Assassin's Creed 2 tutorial negates the fact that he finished Demon's Souls.
I disagree.

Also, getting upset over not being able to grab the best weapons in FFXII is a bit like complaining that there's no napalm strapped to your atomic bomb. You can become so ridiculously overpowered in FFXII even without those weapons, that it's kind of pointless to complain about missing them on a practical level. You're not being punished.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Konanda » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 4:33pm

kenzo wrote:Also, getting upset over not being able to grab the best weapons in FFXII is a bit like complaining that there's no napalm strapped to your atomic bomb. You can become so ridiculously overpowered in FFXII even without those weapons, that it's kind of pointless to complain about missing them on a practical level. You're not being punished.


It's not even the best weapon when you really look at how damage is done in the game. It merely has the highest attack stat. The rest I agree with.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Ninjabear » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 5:42pm

Ryan, if you really enjoyed Demon's Souls I think you should try playing Etrian Odyssey 3 on the DS. It has the same unforgiving difficulty and you can play it on the go.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 6:18pm

Roffle @ Pokemon
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby kenzo » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 6:36pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If Ryan and Justin really liked Ghost Trick and Ace Attorney (especially if they like epic/crazy endings), they should play 999: Nine Doors, Nine Persons, Nine Hours. Secret best game of 2010.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Raine » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 10:26pm

Syed117 wrote:Have to side completely with Alice when she was giving Ryan shit for turtling and waiting for the timer to run out in street fighter.


Bullshit, playing defensively is a perfectly legitimate strategy. It'd be one thing if turtling in SF2 took 45 mins, but the round timers are set pretty low. It's not cheap, it's not griefing, it's just a good strategy.

Look at it this way, you don't hear NFL teams whine when someone plays ball control after they get a two touchdown lead.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Feb 17th, 2011 @ 10:47pm

Man it was really hard to listen to this episode. Word to the wise, if you haven't actively participated in the fighting game community, it's probably not best to speculate why certain games are more popular than others. And there have been two strategy based Mortal Kombat games, Ultimate and MK2. Also there are characters in BlazBlue as there are in plenty of current fighting games that are 'charge characters'. Maybe if you spent more time with games that don't start with the words "Street Fighter" you'd have a more informed opinion.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 18th, 2011 @ 12:39am

Syed117 wrote:I think Ryan's assessment of Demon's Souls' difficulty isn't reliable at all!

Of course it won't seem difficult when you read a walkthrough before every section and know what to expect and which mistakes to not make.

I'm sure it would be significantly harder if someone went in blind and tried to figure everything out themselves. It's a game that can easily be "gamed" if you know what you are doing.

I think I've figured out Ryan's preference when it comes to difficult games. It has to be something that is either memorization based like mega man or something where the gameplay difficulty can be circumvented by using a walkthrough.

Thats why he hates something like the xbox version of Ninja Gaiden. That game is completely skill based and demands a lot from the player. You can't get through by memorizing enemy location and actions because everything is so dynamic. You have to react differently to every encounter and the combat itself it hard enough that a walkthrough would be meaningless if you can't defeat simple enemies.

Using a wiki as a step-by-step guide is dumb, and I never came close to doing that. I tackled a lot of levels blind, though I glossed over wiki pages for some to see if there was any unfair nonsense that would completely ruin everything (like Yurt in 3-2). I only resorted to hyper-analyzing stuff when I encountered situations I couldn't beat, and even then, it didn't make things that much easier.

You're basically correct in your assessment of my difficulty preferences. I prefer games that demand hardcore memorization and/or analysis, because that is what suits my personality type. Ninja Gaiden is all reflexes, and I don't have them to the degree that Ninja Gaiden tends to demand. There's nothing wrong with this; it's just what is. Mega Man's an excellent example, too!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 18th, 2011 @ 12:51am

Syed117 wrote:Anyway. I'm a bit saddened by Ryans "cheapness" when it comes to success in games. Like me, he's a slightly older gamer and I think people who have been gaming for decades tend to have core skills that the young kids don't have these days. I almost expect younger people to apply cheap tactics to win, but seeing older people using those kinds of tactics makes me sad.

Have to side completely with Alice when she was giving Ryan shit for turtling and waiting for the timer to run out in street fighter.

Go to any message board for any community of any fighting game that is played seriously and competitively at a high level, and they'll affirm to you that calling things cheap is a coping mechanism for scrubs who can't/don't want to learn how to play the game at a competitive level. Not that everyone can/should strive to play fighting games competitively (and I certainly can't), but it's a hard fact that I wish more people accepted, understood, and respected. Not to be all antagonistic at you about it, but... well, yeah. Anyone who actually plays fighting games will tell you that calling anything cheap is laughable.

Read this for more context than I could possibly provide. Looks like some of the apostrophes are all broken in Firefox, but yeah, it's a good read by one of the classiest Street Fighter players out there.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 18th, 2011 @ 12:52am

jinpei05 wrote:I'm not sure what Ryan Scott is talking about. Street Fighter II has never been part of EVO2K ever since its inception in 2003. Does he mean Super Street Fighter II Turbo (HD Remix)?

Semantics. You know what I meant. ;) Street Fighter II's been represented at Evo in one form or another up until this year (mostly SSF2T, but lately HD Remix). Its exclusion from Evo essentially signals its death as a competitive fighting game on a national level. I think this is meaningful, because it's clung to life for two decades, and it's never even been displaced by its own sequels, unlike every other game in the roster.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 18th, 2011 @ 1:08am

Bboy_Izilla wrote:Man it was really hard to listen to this episode. Word to the wise, if you haven't actively participated in the fighting game community, it's probably not best to speculate why certain games are more popular than others. And there have been two strategy based Mortal Kombat games, Ultimate and MK2. Also there are characters in BlazBlue as there are in plenty of current fighting games that are 'charge characters'. Maybe if you spent more time with games that don't start with the words "Street Fighter" you'd have a more informed opinion.

I think there's maybe 1-2 individual charge moves in the game, sure -- but no characters who are fundamentally built around a charge mechanic a la Guile/Blanka. I understand why this is the case with this particular game, but I am terrible with motion characters (Ryu, Sagat, etc.). And I've played many, many fighting game besides Street Fighter. Hell, I even reviewed the original BlazBlue, so I'm pretty familiar with where it stands re: charge characters. :)

I don't recall any Mortal Kombat game ever being played competitively, at least not in a serious sense beyond playing with friends at the arcade, etc. I know some people bring up UMK3 as having some degree of competitive viability, but it's certainly never been in the same league as Street Fighter, Tekken, Guilty Gear, or what have you. And I loved the hell out of MK2, but it's functionally not that far evolved from the first game.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 105

Postby Rydog » Feb 18th, 2011 @ 1:19am

Ninjabear wrote:Ryan, if you really enjoyed Demon's Souls I think you should try playing Etrian Odyssey 3 on the DS. It has the same unforgiving difficulty and you can play it on the go.

I've actually been doing a little bit of reading about this series. It sounds more tedious than anything else, though. I get bored really easily with turn-based RPGs these days.


kenzo wrote:If Ryan and Justin really liked Ghost Trick and Ace Attorney (especially if they like epic/crazy endings), they should play 999: Nine Doors, Nine Persons, Nine Hours. Secret best game of 2010.

I've heard about that one, and it sounds pretty intriguing. Is it impossible to find now?
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