Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Master Higgins » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 9:52pm

Gonna start putting these episodes up on Monday night, in case there's any weird issues with iTunes again. Enjoy! I almost have a voice by the end of the episode!
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 9:52pm

It's time!
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 9:56pm

Holy shiiiiiiiiiiit does your store even stock Marvel?! :lol:
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby SerpentineZERO » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 10:33pm

Is it safe to assume Marvel is unjustly unmentioned in the best of 2011 talk?
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 10:37pm

God Brock is so far off the mark about Marvel and especially the X-Men it's not even funny. I was as skeptical about the Schism shit and splitting the team up into Cyclops and Wolverine (two of my least favorite X-Men) as anybody but the net result of that is some of the best X-Men in years. This split allowed them to tonally split the books so that you could have Cyclops' super serious, extinction bullshit carrying on in Uncanny, and Wolverine leading a more light-hearted, fun and most importantly legitimately funny book, and Brock totally shit all over WatXM... His reason? Because Wolverine wasn't the stone faced, ass kicker that he has been for decades? Puh-fucking-lease. If anything, Wolverine is acting as the perfect straight man for all the wacky hijinks and nonsense going on around him in his book. These first three issues have been some of my favorite issues of the year.

And then on top of all that, if you still want that super serious, ass-kicking Wolverine, not only do you have a solo book (which I haven't read but heard it was good from Wolvie fans) but you have the amazing, unanimously critically and fan acclaimed Uncanny X-Force, which has been some of the absolute best I've read all year. Brock's complaint for this one? That they had a 8-part story arc that got "unreadable" half way through. You mean the Dark Angel Saga which I've heard called "this generation's Dark Phoenix Saga" more times than I can count?

As for Marvel at large, between their "Big Shots" (all three, Punisher, Moon Knight and Daredevil have been varying degrees of awesome), a fun, if not amazing Spider Man event in Spider Island (which Brock constantly claims is worse than ass AIDS but never says why) and some of the Avengers based side stuff, which I don't read but hear is good (like Cap, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk's solo books) there is no fucking way Marvel could be considered anywhere close to as bad as listening to you cry like a pussy every week would have anyone believe.

Since I got back into comics I have added about a half dozen comic podcasts into my weekly lineup and have been perusing lots of blogs and reading weekly reviews, and this is the only place on the entire internet that harbors such a sickening, biased, fanboy loathing of half of all mainstream, superhero comics. Even following the writers and artists on Twitter I see a lot of mutual respect between all these guys' works.

Honestly man, I don't know what Marvel did to piss you off so much, and yeah I wish all their books weren't $4 cause that really sucks and starts to add up every week, but you absolutely have to let go of some of the hate in your heart dude. It's fucking poison.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 10:38pm

SerpentineZERO wrote:Is it safe to assume Marvel is unjustly unmentioned in the best of 2011 talk?

That big rant I just barfed up should be an indicator. I'm not even 20 minutes into the goddamned podcast yet and Brock's already pissing me off. :lol:
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 2nd, 2012 @ 11:12pm

On Daredevil:

Brock "Yeah, but is that the top book of the YEAR?!"

Higgins "If you're a big Marvel fan, yeah. That's a pretty good Marvel book"

WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?!
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Master Higgins » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 12:33am

Daredevil is good, but I'd put a dozen DC books ahead of it.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby SerpentineZERO » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 12:40am

I pretty much agree with the above rant.

If Suicide Squad Vol. 1 sold well, it frustrates me even more that they cancelled vol. 2. At least complete shit, DC. Fuck! But on the other hand, DC does actually release things on paperback first, rather than Marvel who releases every damn thing on hardcover first.

I don't get Brock's SI hate (because he hasn't explained why) or why it's as bad as OMD or OMIT. Didn't SI fix some of the changes brought about by those books?

Master Higgins wrote:Daredevil is good, but I'd put a dozen DC books ahead of it.


I can see some books, but IMO it's even been better than Batman and JL. I actually agree with Brock, Snyder's Detective run was better than his current Batman stuff (but it's still good).

Speaking of DC, Liefeld on Deathstroke would be unfortunate yet fitting. Has it gotten better from #2? As in, is there an interesting story now, or are they still trying to convince us that Deathstroke is badass when all he's been doing is killing boring mooks in a boring fashion? Because i dropped it after #2.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 1:12am

Master Higgins wrote:Daredevil is good, but I'd put a dozen DC books ahead of it.

I can think of a dozen books, from both DC and Marvel that I would personally put above it too. But saying that it's only deserving of the top spot for being a pretty good Marvel book and only if you're "a big Marvel fan" is asinine, fanboy bullshit. I personally don't have any attachment to Daredevil, nor do I know the extent to which he has been battered by his writers over the years (though I've heard it talked about in other podcasts and it sounds like he really needed a break), but I can read the existing issues of the book and objectively notice the extreme level of quality in both the writing and art (and holy god it has some of the best covers I've ever seen) and not have to qualify that by saying it's only good "for a Marvel book."
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 10:58pm

Captain America has been shit lately to. I think It has to do with the end of issue 5 and the beginning of 6 being virtually the same book. Queen Bee and Baron Zemo talk, Cap dream sequence about losing powers (which just happened in Steve Rogers: Super Soldier) and the social commentary that could have been great gets swept under the rug with a blah story arc.

Why Spider Island sucked? 1) Everyone is naked at the end because that is good story cannon fodder...no. 2) The great relationship that Peter and Charlie have been building for the past few years in ASM is destroyed in a couple of issues. 3) Ramos's art is horrid. 4) Spider Island t didn't need to be a mini cross over with half of the Marvel Universe. 5) I can't justify paying $3.99 for an ad ridden Marvel title that comes out two to three times a month. 6) Why is bringing MJ back so important? 7) ASM was setting a great standard when it came to having a good revolving cast of creators that could keep a main plot theme going between arcs, but once Slott was put on ASM on a regular virtually permanently basis the book became rigid and became a Bendis wannabe title. Those enough reasons? I am going to guess not.

AS for my dislike of Wolverine and the third or fourth first class, I mean X-Men I cannot read anything that is drawn by Chris Bachalo any more. I at one point liked his style, but now it is an eye sore. Not to mention Jason Aaron who I love for his work on Scalped doesn't really write super heroes well. I am going to give Wolverine and The X-Men Alpha and Omega a read to attempt to enjoy an X-Men title again. Brian Wood please save the day.

Marvel still sucks right now and I may be the minority when it come to a negative critique of these books, but you have to think; maybe that is saying something.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 11:24pm

Blah, whatever. Just deleted another big rant directed at you cause you're not worth it. Go ahead and keep dismissing Marvel based on the dumbness of some of their biggest, most bombastic, marquee titles, but by all means keep picking up Superman every month, one of the worst comics DC is shitting out month to month. Oh, and Deathstroke. You like that one right? Maybe after Liefeld takes it over you'll finally realize it's shit and dump it in favor of a series like UXF where every single issue is a modern classic. Or Defenders, which shows that Fraction hasn't lost it, like Fear Itself would suggest.

I'm not even trying to tell a guy what he should like cause I hate it when people do that to me and I'm not even trying to paint Marvel as some creative powerhouse that releases nothing but good books, but your blanket dismissal is absolutely retarded.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby SerpentineZERO » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 11:47pm

Roadie Brock wrote:2) The great relationship that Peter and Charlie have been building for the past few years in ASM is destroyed in a couple of issues.

6) Why is bringing MJ back so important?


Because no one liked Carlie? And the SI crossovers I thought are mostly their own minis, except at least Venom but you don't read that anyway. But you should give it a shot, it's really good.

But I don't like Ramos or Bachalo either. I can stand Bachalos, kinda, but I think he's off the book anyway. I think Nick Bradshaw took over but it may be temporary.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 3rd, 2012 @ 11:59pm

It's a testament to how good WatXM is that it's one of the best books out there with Bachalo on it and I don't like Bachalo either.

Also regarding Spider Man, it's just Brock talking about of his ass again about Carlie/MJ. Now that Carlie and Peter split up their relationship is starting to evolve into a more professional one. That Vulture mini arc last month was stupid, but the Peter/Carlie stuff was a highlight.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 1:10am

LiQuid wrote:Blah, whatever. Just deleted another big rant directed at you cause you're not worth it. Go ahead and keep dismissing Marvel based on the dumbness of some of their biggest, most bombastic, marquee titles, but by all means keep picking up Superman every month, one of the worst comics DC is shitting out month to month. Oh, and Deathstroke. You like that one right? Maybe after Liefeld takes it over you'll finally realize it's shit and dump it in favor of a series like UXF where every single issue is a modern classic. Or Defenders, which shows that Fraction hasn't lost it, like Fear Itself would suggest.

I'm not even trying to tell a guy what he should like cause I hate it when people do that to me and I'm not even trying to paint Marvel as some creative powerhouse that releases nothing but good books, but your blanket dismissal is absolutely retarded.


Why did you delete all that hard rant work? Shame.

What are you exactly saying with "Go ahead and keep dismissing Marvel based on the dumbness of some of their biggest, most bombastic, marquee titles..." Are you saying that I should read dumb titles because they happen to be big name titles?

I never said Superman ($2.99 title) was great. I enjoy it, because I actually spend some time reading it. I breeze through most titles so it is nice to have a title that takes a little time to read.

Your hate of the Deathstroke character is curious, and if Liefeld takes over I will most likely drop Deathstroke ($2.99 title)

Uncanny X-Force ($3.99 title) is far from a "modern classic". The last X-Force volume was amazing and a good read. This new Uncanny X-Force has story that takes to long to develop and is no where near the quality of the Dark Phoenix Saga, and I am not impressed with the art at all.

Marvel getting back to being a "creative powerhouse", now there is something I would like to see. Until then I will dismiss over-priced, under developed, horribly drawn garbage willingly and vigorously.

Animal Man has been great though. :P
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby kenzo » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 1:39am

Sounds to me like both Brock and LiQuid could use some chocolate, or some ice cream, or maybe both - whatever women use to comfort themselves and calm down.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 1:55am

I don't need anything, I'd just love it if Brock stopped being such a fanboy, but whatever, he can spend $6 on two bad comics instead of $4 on a single great one if that's how he wants to roll. Just more money in Higgins' pocket.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 12:41pm

LiQuid wrote:I don't need anything, I'd just love it if Brock stopped being such a fanboy, but whatever, he can spend $6 on two bad comics instead of $4 on a single great one if that's how he wants to roll. Just more money in Higgins' pocket.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

$4 for what you perceive as a great Marvel title is definitely not a quality investment for this fanboy's reading list.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby SerpentineZERO » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 4:22pm

Roadie Brock wrote:Your hate of the Deathstroke character is curious, and if Liefeld takes over I will most likely drop Deathstroke ($2.99 title)


I dunno about LiQuid, but i don't hate the character, I dislike the writing. Also, the story or lack thereof. It's just trying too hard. There are worse titles, sure. Also, is Grifter actually getting anywhere? I was learning nothing about the character 2 issues in so i dropped that one too.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby bitblockader » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 4:28pm

Does Conspiracy Comics ship pampers for all the Marvel listeners?
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 4th, 2012 @ 5:54pm

bitblockader wrote:Does Conspiracy Comics ship pampers for all the Marvel listeners?

Do they ship brains for anyone who thinks there's a such thing as a "Marvel listener?"
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:13am

SerpentineZERO wrote:
Roadie Brock wrote:Your hate of the Deathstroke character is curious, and if Liefeld takes over I will most likely drop Deathstroke ($2.99 title)


I dunno about LiQuid, but i don't hate the character, I dislike the writing. Also, the story or lack thereof. It's just trying too hard. There are worse titles, sure. Also, is Grifter actually getting anywhere? I was learning nothing about the character 2 issues in so i dropped that one too.


Deathstroke hasn't been a great title overall; it has been fair and entertaining at least to me. As for the story or lack thereof, I think that is really due to the fact that it is taking way to long to get where it needs to go, but I like the art and character enough to give it the arc. But if Liefeld rears his ugly pen I will be dropping Deathstroke without a second thought.
As for Grifter, the book hasn't really given the reader any insight into who Grifter is and that again is a problem; especially for new readers, but it has been very action packed since it started and I like that. As for Grifter as a character I don't think we are going to see who he is until we get through some more of the story so I'll give it some time. Plus I want to see how DC absorbs the Wildstorm characters into the "Rejiggeredverse".
That being said I was disappointed that I couldn't stomach Stormwatch anymore and have since dropped the title.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:13am

Hey Brock have you checked out Rucka's current Punisher? Like Daredevil I think it's truly a comic that anybody can get into and appreciate, regardless of your thoughts on the main character. I know you happen to be a fan of hard boiled police books too from your Gotham PD recommendations. The latest issue was merely two police officers having a conversation while driving to a crime scene to discover what we the readers already knew from last issue and it still managed to be one of the best reads I've had so far this week.

If you have read it and don't like it than I truly don't understand you and think you're just being a hater for hate's sake. Some dude in a thread at Bleeding Cool basically snapped about all the negativity surrounding comics, and really that's all I'm trying to say here when I yell at you for liking "shitty books," and dismissing all of Marvel. I know it's hard cause geeks seem to be hard-coded to just fucking hate all the time, but after listening to other podcasts (specifically the ones from ComicVine and IGN), it's really hard to listen to you and Higgins be so negative every week.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby kenzo » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:30am

Speaking of the letters section in comics disappearing - you guys should read some reader emails. Specifically, people should write in and tell you their personal favorite comic of 2011 for you guys to read on air. You can ask them to limit it to 100-120 words for the sake of brevity.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 6:01am

You know, I used to really like letters sections. I still skim through them when they're there, but I don't think they're all that vital. The problem is that most of the time they're just long, blubbery emails about how amazing Comic_X is. I don't need to see that. I know how good the comic is since I just read it. The best part of any letters Q&A section should be the A's and comic letters sections don't typically have much of that.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 9:30am

LiQuid wrote:Hey Brock have you checked out Rucka's current Punisher? Like Daredevil I think it's truly a comic that anybody can get into and appreciate, regardless of your thoughts on the main character. I know you happen to be a fan of hard boiled police books too from your Gotham PD recommendations. The latest issue was merely two police officers having a conversation while driving to a crime scene to discover what we the readers already knew from last issue and it still managed to be one of the best reads I've had so far this week.

If you have read it and don't like it than I truly don't understand you and think you're just being a hater for hate's sake. Some dude in a thread at Bleeding Cool basically snapped about all the negativity surrounding comics, and really that's all I'm trying to say here when I yell at you for liking "shitty books," and dismissing all of Marvel. I know it's hard cause geeks seem to be hard-coded to just fucking hate all the time, but after listening to other podcasts (specifically the ones from ComicVine and IGN), it's really hard to listen to you and Higgins be so negative every week.


Just like Waid's Daredevil, I am going to check out Rucka's Punisher when it comes out in trade. I have heard good things about it.

About the negativity surrounding comics; I think there are people out there that are really negative and they shouldn't be. Liking supposed "shitty books" and dismissing over priced books that don't interest me isn't being negative it is being practical; especially week to week. And as for the positive vibe you get from ComicVine and IGN you realize they get paid to be positive and politically correct. Higgins and I have real opinions and if voicing our disappointment with Marvel is hating then you don't have to listen to us. Your Choice.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby LiQuid » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 10:12am

They're not being paid to be positive. That's a dumb thing to say. Those outlets both give out shit scores to books they don't like. They even talk badly about stuff on their podcasts (IGN had nothing good to say about Flashpoint and Fear Itself last year for example). I just never hear them spit the venom that you do. They certainly would never openly dismiss an entire leg of the comic book industry for any reason.

I don't know what capacity you work at the store, but if you had a customer that you weren't familiar with come into the store would you talk mess about Marvel comics in front of them? If they didn't like you crassly talking smack about Marvel would you tell them to just go shop someplace else? I know that's extreme, and this silly podcast doesn't completely represent the store, but deriding Higgins for suggesting that an X-Men book might not be the worst thing since Konanda's last post comes off as confrontational, vitriolic and hostile.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 10:30am

LiQuid wrote:I don't know what capacity you work at the store, but if you had a customer that you weren't familiar with come into the store would you talk mess about Marvel comics in front of them? If they didn't like you crassly talking smack about Marvel would you tell them to just go shop someplace else? I know that's extreme, and this silly podcast doesn't completely represent the store, but deriding Higgins for suggesting that an X-Men book might not be the worst thing since Konanda's last post comes off as confrontational, vitriolic and hostile.


My capacity at the shop is Shipping Receiving Manager. When it comes to customers in the shop you have to base it on what they seem to like. I am not going to sell them something that they don't want. If they want super heroes I try to sell them super hero titles, if they want a certain writer I try to sell them that writer, same goes for an artist or if they want more real life type comics, but if they want something good then I can't in good conscious give them a Marvel book if I want them to come back and continue shopping at the store.

As for my deriding of Higgins, he makes it so easy to do sometimes.

LiQuid wrote:They're not being paid to be positive. That's a dumb thing to say. Those outlets both give out shit scores to books they don't like. They even talk badly about stuff on their podcasts (IGN had nothing good to say about Flashpoint and Fear Itself last year for example). I just never hear them spit the venom that you do. They certainly would never openly dismiss an entire leg of the comic book industry for any reason.


As to who is getting paid or not getting paid neither of us know the truth so that is a dead issue.
They hated Fear Itself cool, but wait they also hated Flashpoint which means I must hate them. I'm confused.
If you don't like my brutally honest view of Marvel I'm sorry, but that is your problem. Not mine.
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby kenzo » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 1:47pm

Roadie Brock wrote:...isn't being negative it is being practical...
The mating cry of negative people for generations! :geek:
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Re: The Comic Conspiracy: Episode 39

Postby Roadie Brock » Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:42pm

kenzo wrote:
Roadie Brock wrote:...isn't being negative it is being practical...
The mating cry of negative people for generations! :geek:


It is a wonder there are still negative people out in the world.
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