Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Rydog » Apr 11th, 2012 @ 12:34am

In this week's episode, we talk Skullgirls, Xenoblade, Gray Matter, and why Ryan Higgins still hates everything.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Jaebird » Apr 11th, 2012 @ 9:10pm

Fitch interrupting Ryan to point out the Japanese names of characters... Riveting.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 11th, 2012 @ 9:11pm

Jaebird wrote:Fitch interrupting Ryan to point out the Japanese names of characters... Riveting.

I'm starting to suspect Adam is merely being ironically japanerdy at this point. Almost a parody of his brother.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Jaebird » Apr 11th, 2012 @ 9:26pm

LiQuid wrote:
Jaebird wrote:Fitch interrupting Ryan to point out the Japanese names of characters... Riveting.

I'm starting to suspect Adam is merely being ironically japanerdy at this point. Almost a parody of his brother.

Wow... I had no idea he was making me hate him on purpose.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 5:36am

When I hear you guys talk about street fighter-related things, I feel like I'm being trolled.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Mr_eX » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 6:22am

I wonder if Higgins knows that Gamestop isn't a small business. They bought up all the video game retailer chains and now pretty much have a monopoly. If you're going to support an evil corporation support one that gives you the best prices.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Jaebird » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 6:35am

Mr_eX wrote:I wonder if Higgins knows that Gamestop isn't a small business. They bought up all the video game retailer chains and now pretty much have a monopoly. If you're going to support an evil corporation support one that gives you the best prices.

He's either trolling everyone or he's too Bizarro-lazy to use the internet. Or both.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 7:30am

We [people who play fighting games on a regular basis] are very well aware of the difference in Japanese character names, which is why we came up with nicknames for them [seeing as half the community calls them by their Japanese names]. Hence Bison being called The Dictator, Balrog being called The Boxer and Vega being called The Claw.

In regards to Akuma/Gouki and Gouken, yes, Fitch they are two different characters.

[let me make this as obnoxiously large as possible, so the point is made annoyingly clear]

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Jaebird » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 7:55am

I'm hardly what you would call a fighting game enthusiast, and even I know who these characters were. And before Wikipedia, too.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Master Higgins » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 9:44am

Jaebird wrote:
Mr_eX wrote:I wonder if Higgins knows that Gamestop isn't a small business. They bought up all the video game retailer chains and now pretty much have a monopoly. If you're going to support an evil corporation support one that gives you the best prices.

He's either trolling everyone or he's too Bizarro-lazy to use the internet. Or both.


Did I say they're a small business? They're a specialty business, which I'll happily support over a "mega-store".
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 10:43am

Master Higgins wrote:Did I say they're a small business? They're a specialty business, which I'll happily support over a "mega-store".

Gamestop is a company that builds its entire profit scale off of consumer ignorance. Their only "specialty" is exploiting gamers. I don't understand how you can justify supporting one chain conglomerate over another based on the lack of breadth of its products and not on its treatment of its customer base.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Master Higgins » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 12:16pm

What, their used pricing? Have you ever seen record stores or video stores? Buy cheap, big markup, but still cheaper than a new copy. Gamestop is far from the first store to do this, and far from the last. Or is there something else I don't know about...
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 12:32pm

if you are comparing the pricing scales of record stores and video stores [I've worked at both and currently supervise a bookstore] to that of Gamestop, I'd suggest looking at some consumer reports for the past decade.

It's kinda read that Gamestop isn't the first to do this, but they are the best. Record stores and bookstores give the consumer the advantage because there is actual competition, and at this point it's pretty widely distrobuted in regards to the brick and mortar and online vendor fields. Gamestop bought most of the competition and is capitalizing off of the average "consumer" [because a customer isn't what we are talking about here] intelligence and savvy.

Seeing as there are barely 50% of console owners who connect their consoles to the net [let alone purchasing something on it], it's fairly safe to assume that Gamestop is taking adv...capitalizing off of, a consumer base that is still afraid to purchase items online for a cheaper price. I can't be mad at Gamestop for doing it. I won't shop there, but I can't be mad at them.

Consumers consume, they don't have time to be discerning and when presented with a better option that requires hard work and research they'll usually pass on it.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Konanda » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 1:31pm

LiQuid wrote:
Master Higgins wrote:Did I say they're a small business? They're a specialty business, which I'll happily support over a "mega-store".

Gamestop is a company that builds its entire profit scale off of consumer ignorance. Their only "specialty" is exploiting gamers. I don't understand how you can justify supporting one chain conglomerate over another based on the lack of breadth of its products and not on its treatment of its customer base.


Dude likes brick and motar or maybe being able to talk face to face to a sales representative? Personally, while here in Hamilton I mostly use the local EB Games because the staff are actually really nice, courteous and don't try ramming crap down my throat. Sure they still ask about the warrenty, strategy guide or whatever other thing they try to upsell but it's never pushed just simply asked and that's it, I understand it's their policy and they understand I don't want it simple as that. If the experience of buying games there was as wretched as I hear from people on the Internet than I would not give them my pratonage but this is not the case.

I would like to use 1up Games (local small business game shop) but it's more out of the way so unless I'm already planning to be down that way it's a pain to get to just for buying games. Although it's totally the place to go for retro stuff or out of warrenty console repairs/disc repair and they recently moved back closer to where I'm at. The arcade machines are pretty cool as well.

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Although if/when I'm back home I'm way more likely to use Amazon because travelling the closest place is a Wal-Mart that's a half hour away.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Master Higgins » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 1:38pm

Hell yeah, that place looks awesome.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 1:45pm

Master Higgins wrote:What, their used pricing? Have you ever seen record stores or video stores? Buy cheap, big markup, but still cheaper than a new copy. Gamestop is far from the first store to do this, and far from the last. Or is there something else I don't know about...
I'm not bothered by their markup on used games. If you want better used prices, don't complain about Gamestop - nobody is making you use it. Go use ebay or whatever if your'e so tech-savy.

The thing that bothers me about Gamestop is:
-Their well-documented policies of employee-abuse.
-Their penchant for selling used games as new.

That last bit in particular really pisses me off. Gamestop encourages its employees to take whatever games off the shelves home with them and play them so that they're well informed and can give customers advice. Good idea, right? The problem is, they take those games, put them back on the shelves, and charge full price for them. I'm sorry. If I take a game home, open the packaging, and play it, I can't return it as new to Gamestop, it's a used product. So don't sell me a used game at full price as new. And it's not just those games, but any game they decide to use as a display case - instead of leaving it in the packaging or using a dummy display case, they open new games, take the disk out, and then use the empty case. If you want to buy the display copy, instead of getting a discount like when you buy the display-unit of any item at any other store because it's a used item, they still charge you full price - regardless of the wear and tear or missing contents. To me, these two things border on criminality.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 1:53pm

Bboy_Izilla wrote:if you are comparing the pricing scales of record stores and video stores [I've worked at both and currently supervise a bookstore] to that of Gamestop, I'd suggest looking at some consumer reports for the past decade.

It's kinda read that Gamestop isn't the first to do this, but they are the best. Record stores and bookstores give the consumer the advantage because there is actual competition, and at this point it's pretty widely distrobuted in regards to the brick and mortar and online vendor fields. Gamestop bought most of the competition and is capitalizing off of the average "consumer" [because a customer isn't what we are talking about here] intelligence and savvy.

Seeing as there are barely 50% of console owners who connect their consoles to the net [let alone purchasing something on it], it's fairly safe to assume that Gamestop is taking adv...capitalizing off of, a consumer base that is still afraid to purchase items online for a cheaper price. I can't be mad at Gamestop for doing it. I won't shop there, but I can't be mad at them.

Consumers consume, they don't have time to be discerning and when presented with a better option that requires hard work and research they'll usually pass on it.
LiQuid wrote:
Master Higgins wrote:Did I say they're a small business? They're a specialty business, which I'll happily support over a "mega-store".

Gamestop is a company that builds its entire profit scale off of consumer ignorance. Their only "specialty" is exploiting gamers. I don't understand how you can justify supporting one chain conglomerate over another based on the lack of breadth of its products and not on its treatment of its customer base.
And yet, both of you guys subscribe to XBL, I bet? You're paying a company for things like voice chat and peer-to-peer online gaming, stuff that every other gaming machine under the sun has given to the player for free. If you have an X-Box and you want to play X-Box games online, they've got a monopoly and force you to pay into their scam of a system. They're capitalizing on the consumer ignorance of console gamers who don't know they shouldn't have to be paying for these kinds of things, or are too scared of PC games to go play their shit over there. I get being upset for a company for doing those kinds of stuff, but it seems kind of insincere to single out Gamestop for doing what every other company on the planet would do if they could do it (making money off of a captured/ignorant audience). It's capitalism.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Konanda » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:27pm

Master Higgins wrote:Hell yeah, that place looks awesome.


Ya 1up Games old location was pretty great too, I'll probably make a trip to their current location next week though. Specifically after watching the video below I was reminded about how cool Tetrisphere for the N64 was and want to see if they have a used copy of it.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:37pm

Wow kenzo brings some MS bashing into a completely unrelated discussion!

How is Xbox Live a monopoly in any way, shape or form? Dude you should just delete that whole post because it's a LOT of nonsense.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Konanda » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:40pm

kenzo wrote:If you have an X-Box and you want to play X-Box games online, they've got a monopoly and force you to pay into their scam of a system.


Calling it a scam is fairly slanderous and either ignorant or disingenuous, the reason Microsoft charges for XBL is because they are hosting all the content on their severs where as on the other consoles this is on the onus of the publishers. The exception being some publishers like EA and the odd game like Chromehounds. (which I imagine Sega did so was because XBL probably wasn't developed enough to do what they wanted it to do at the time so they had to host the multiplayer on their own servers)

It's a difference in philosophy and as a result you don't get weird issues like the Catherine demo being pulled from PSN because Atlus couldn't afford to keep hosting it given the number of downloads they were getting. Microsoft is able to subsidize these costs by charging for some of the services offered through XBL (particularly online multiplayer) ensuring that access to content is not at the whims and budgets of publishers.

That said, I doubt they are operating at zero net income from XBL subscriptions.
Last edited by Konanda on Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:44pm

It's not really MS bashing - just providing some much needed perspective by contrasting a similar situation.

MS's XBL is more of a monopoly than Gamestop. If you want to play Halo, or if all you've got is a 360 - you're forced to use their service if you wanna play online. They even took out LAN support in most games towards the end of last gen in a move to kill the only viable alternative. Whereas, you can buy games from lots of other alternative places.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:47pm

Kenzo also doesn't realize that the precedent for paying for XBL was started in a time where Sony was so far behind in the online gaming space that it wasn't even funny. The PS3's leaderboards at launch took 24 hours to update. PSN was a fucking disaster up until a few years ago and it still lags behind XBL.

Now I don't pay for XBL anymore because I don't play so many video games last couple years and I'm hoping that MS realizes that hiding all their new premium content (their media shit) behind another subscription wall is a bad idea and finds a way to bring out an acceptable free tier of XBL. Like I pay for HBO and expensive ass Uverse but I can't use HBO Go on XBL without Gold and that's fucking silly. Shit's gotta work itself out and hopefully it does before the next console gen or I'll just get a cheap PC instead and make do.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:48pm

Konanda wrote:the reason Microsoft charges for XBL is because they are hosting all the content on their severs where as on the other consoles this is on the onus of the publishers.
First of all - like I said, everyone else manages to do that without charging their customers for it. Wii, PS3, Steam - none of those shifts the infrastructure costs onto consumers like that. Charging a montly/yearly fee for access to things is tantamount to charging customers a monthly fee to use the parking lots of stores. It's absolutely a scam.

Second of all - the large majority of "hosting" in these online games are done by the users themselves. If every game had MS dedicated servers, then great - I'd probably pay for that. But that's not what's going on. I'm paying extra money so I can do peer-to-peer gaming? That's always been free. Again, charging for something that's traditionally (and to this day on every other platform) free is a scam.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:50pm

LiQuid wrote:Kenzo also doesn't realize that the precedent for paying for XBL was started in a time where Sony was so far behind in the online gaming space that it wasn't even funny. The PS3's leaderboards at launch took 24 hours to update. PSN was a fucking disaster up until a few years ago and it still lags behind XBL.
How is this a good justification? It's okay to charge you because... they have a monopoly on good service? Again, not seeing how this is any different from Gamestop.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:54pm

Like Konanda said, they are the first and only console manufacturer that does all its own hosting.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Konanda » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 2:55pm

kenzo wrote:
Konanda wrote:the reason Microsoft charges for XBL is because they are hosting all the content on their severs where as on the other consoles this is on the onus of the publishers.
First of all - like I said, everyone else manages to do that without charging their customers for it. Wii, PS3, Steam - none of those shifts the infrastructure costs onto consumers like that. Charging a montly/yearly fee for access to things is tantamount to charging customers a monthly fee to use the parking lots of stores. It's absolutely a scam.

Second of all - the large majority of "hosting" in these online games are done by the users themselves. If every game had MS dedicated servers, then great - I'd probably pay for that. But that's not what's going on. I'm paying extra money so I can do peer-to-peer gaming? That's always been free. Again, charging for something that's traditionally (and to this day on every other platform) free is a scam.


Did you not read the other part of my post? When the Catherine demo came out Atlus pulled it from PSN because of bandwidth costs where it still stayed on XBL because they pay for those costs.

It's not a scam it a result of a difference in who's responsible for the hosting of content on their service. Sure it isn't an ideal solution but there are advantages to doing it both ways. Just because you do not agree with how they are implementing the hosting duties of content does not mean it is a scam. A scam means fraud and they are not defrauding the users with how XBL subscriptions work, it's not deceptive they straight out say here is what you get for XBL Gold and here is what you get for XBL Silver and they deliver on what they say.

I will agree that I think it is far from an ideal situation and they should figure out a different payment model (ie. Gold is used to subsidize Silver) to support their system but it is most definitely not a scam.

Also how do you think the breakdown of say EA's online pass works? Do you think that none of that money is going to supporting their own online servers, (which I would be more willing to consider being a scam especially with how their sports franchises servers work) I can't say but I wouldn't be suprised if this was not the case.
Last edited by Konanda on Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby LiQuid » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:00pm

I can't believe we're talking about online gaming infrastructure again. Fuck you, kenzo.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:02pm

Konanda wrote:Did you not read the other part of my post? When the Catherine demo came out Atlus pulled it from PSN because of bandwidth costs where it still stayed on XBL because they pay for those costs.
Still the same issue, still a scam. Why am I paying the infrastructure costs of hosting files? These demos are advertisements for their products - why am I paying to play an advertisement? That's not how advertisements work. What if I don't even give a shit about these demos and don't download them - why should I still be on the hook to pay for them?

Edit: No seriously, I want to point out how much of a scam this is. Do I have to pay to look at billboards? Or commercials on network TV? Companies pay content distributors to advertise their products. Those advertisements are disseminated to viewers for free. The uptick in business, if the advertisements did their job, more than offsets the cost of the advertisements. That's how businesses work. In no way should the cost of advertisements be passed on from the content providers to the viewers. In things like magazines and newspapers, advertisements actually means that the cost to consumers is reduced because of advertisements, and in traditional TV and radio, consumers get their content gratis because of it. Only in bizarro-MS-land is it okay to defer the basic infrastructure costs of doing business like advertisements onto the consumer like that.
Last edited by kenzo on Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby kenzo » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:02pm

LiQuid wrote:I can't believe we're talking about online gaming infrastructure again. Fuck you, kenzo.
Good. Now you know how I feel about you all bringing up retarded anti-Gamestop whining.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 165

Postby Konanda » Apr 13th, 2012 @ 3:10pm

Man, I can't wait until they get back to not having the three man episodes, when it's just a trio they almost always are more lackluster. Also sometimes I'm really curious if Adam is just playing a character or if he's just buzzed and as a result less reserved or if he just regularly is always in the gutter.
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