Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Lovely » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 5:30am

Just popped in real quick to say that there is INDEED a vaccine for Chicken pox now. "Pox Parties" are pretty much only done by those whacko's who are afraid of immunizations and science in general.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaZdbgrrmMg

EDIT- Oh. Woops. Shoulda listened to the podcast a little longer, the crew found out the answer themselves. Good good. Eh, the point of Pox parties being stupid still stands!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Mr_eX » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 5:45am

Lopsidedown wrote:No. I remembered the characters that I actually gave a shit about. Reiser wonderfully playing a villain that was actually able to justify his actions. The tense pacing. Beautiful directing (it still looks incredible).

I have absolutely no idea where you could possibly be coming from.
You can defend Prometheus all you want, but I have a feeling you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who'll talk shit about Aliens.


He clearly hated Avatar so he went in wanting to hate it because it's from Cameron.

It has aged better than any movie in the franchise and is also the best written, paced and acted movie in the series. The fact that he called them "laughable dudebro marines" shows that he completely missed the point of the movie.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 9:20am

trippingmartian wrote:The Prometheus criticism is painful to listen to. Noomi Rapace is not a strong lead? GTFO. For once, I agree with Higgins. I loved when he pulled the David Lynch card. :lol:

Go back and watch Alien. I think you'll find the first film is not so different from Prometheus. It's a horror film that incidentally takes place in a aesthetically brilliant sci-fi universe. For two hours you watch barely sympathetic characters (save for Ripley/Shaw) hunted down by rapidly evolving alien species.

Now go back and watch Aliens. You will find that the 2nd film hasn't aged all that well. At times it's like watching an Alien/Halo fan film. Oh, and Paul Reiser is in it. James Cameron is a hack who will be too busy (thankfully) to further taint this franchise as he will be busy shitting out a couple of Avatar cash-ins.

Can't wait for Ridley's new Blade Runner flick. I hear Harrison Ford may have a bit part. :D
trippingmartian wrote:For what it's worth, I did enjoy seeing Cameron's first two Terminator films...when I was twelve. They're not very enjoyable to watch now, though.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 10:57am

kenzo wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:The Prometheus criticism is painful to listen to. Noomi Rapace is not a strong lead? GTFO. For once, I agree with Higgins. I loved when he pulled the David Lynch card. :lol:

Go back and watch Alien. I think you'll find the first film is not so different from Prometheus. It's a horror film that incidentally takes place in a aesthetically brilliant sci-fi universe. For two hours you watch barely sympathetic characters (save for Ripley/Shaw) hunted down by rapidly evolving alien species.

Now go back and watch Aliens. You will find that the 2nd film hasn't aged all that well. At times it's like watching an Alien/Halo fan film. Oh, and Paul Reiser is in it. James Cameron is a hack who will be too busy (thankfully) to further taint this franchise as he will be busy shitting out a couple of Avatar cash-ins.

Can't wait for Ridley's new Blade Runner flick. I hear Harrison Ford may have a bit part. :D
trippingmartian wrote:For what it's worth, I did enjoy seeing Cameron's first two Terminator films...when I was twelve. They're not very enjoyable to watch now, though.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great counterargument. You've convinced me that Cameron didn't make puerile trash. I look forward to reading more of your thought-provoking insights.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:00am

To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:16am

trippingmartian wrote:Great counterargument. You've convinced me that Cameron didn't make puerile trash. I look forward to reading more of your thought-provoking insights.
I'm not out to convince you that you're wrong. I'm just laughing because what you wrote was hysterical. You sound like a little kid - telling people to GTFO and comparing Aliens to Halo-fan fiction. I've seen Aliens and I've seen Terminator 2 recently. They're still fantastic films. And I think it's kind of ironic that you're telling me sarcastically what a great and convincing argument I've made, but then really do nothing to explain why you don't like these films (other than the vague "they didn't age well" and some nonsensical jabs at James Cameron). Also, it's not really a very competent or convincing argument to say that Prometheus is good, and having your only evidence being that other films are bad.

The only actual thing you do have to say in Prometheus's defense is that it's similar to Alien in terms of the basic outline of the plot. But that alone is hardly sufficent grounds to say a film was "good". I mean, you know another film that shares the basic plot of Alien? Aliens. I mean serious, this quote perfectly describes just about every Alien film, "It's a horror film that incidentally takes place in a aesthetically brilliant sci-fi universe. For two hours you watch barely sympathetic characters (save for Ripley/Shaw) hunted down by rapidly evolving alien species."

And I guess it's no real surprise that someone who liked this fraudulent/unnecessary prequel is interested in an equally fraudulent/unnecessary sequel to Blade Runner.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby LiK » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:27am

Thank you Ryan, Movie spoiler discussions should always be saved for last.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:33am

Bboy_Izilla wrote:To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html
Fantastic! Also, big bro-hug for being the only other person on the planet who wasn't mindlessly losing their shit to The Avengers. It's a good thing you didn't let other people around here know you felt this way, because they would have eaten you alive.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:40am

kenzo wrote:
Bboy_Izilla wrote:To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html
Fantastic! Also, big bro-hug for being the only other person on the planet who wasn't mindlessly losing their shit to The Avengers. It's a good thing you didn't let other people around here know you felt this way, because they would have eaten you alive.


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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby darfox8 » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 11:45am

I for one think Terminator 1 and 2 are great. Have no idea why buddy dislikes them but I guess there are logical reason you may not like it.

OMG T2 is awesome! I wanna watch it now.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 12:13pm

kenzo wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:Great counterargument. You've convinced me that Cameron didn't make puerile trash. I look forward to reading more of your thought-provoking insights.
I'm not out to convince you that you're wrong. I'm just laughing because what you wrote was hysterical. You sound like a little kid - telling people to GTFO and comparing Aliens to Halo-fan fiction.

Okay, then swap GTFO with "you're perfectly entitled to your wrong opinion." I'm just perplexed how a grown man can think that Scarecrow making Aquaman afraid of water is a great plot device and in the same podcast tell us that Noomi is not a strong lead in Prometheus.

kenzo wrote:I've seen Aliens and I've seen Terminator 2 recently. They're still fantastic films. And I think it's kind of ironic that you're telling me sarcastically what a great and convincing argument I've made, but then really do nothing to explain why you don't like these films (other than the vague "they didn't age well" and some nonsensical jabs at James Cameron).

The dialogue is stilted and corny in the Terminator films, especially in Terminator 2. Just one of many examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkrjitslCSE

kenzo wrote:Also, it's not really a very competent or convincing argument to say that Prometheus is good, and having your only evidence being that other films are bad.

The only actual thing you do have to say in Prometheus's defense is that it's similar to Alien in terms of the basic outline of the plot. But that alone is hardly sufficent grounds to say a film was "good". I mean, you know another film that shares the basic plot of Alien? Aliens. I mean serious, this quote perfectly describes just about every Alien film, "It's a horror film that incidentally takes place in a aesthetically brilliant sci-fi universe. For two hours you watch barely sympathetic characters (save for Ripley/Shaw) hunted down by rapidly evolving alien species."

If you don't catch the tonal and aesthetic differences between Alien and Aliens, and how badly Cameron fucked up the franchise, paving the way for such gems as Alien3, Alien Resurrection and AvP, then I don't know what to say.
kenzo wrote:And I guess it's no real surprise that someone who liked this fraudulent/unnecessary prequel is interested in an equally fraudulent/unnecessary sequel to Blade Runner.

Films are a visual medium. As long as Ridley Scott is at the helm of a Blade Runner follow-up, why wouldn't you be excited? Did he not just shit on every science fiction film made in the last 20 years, at least visually speaking? Or to put it another way, would people still be talking about Metroppolis 80 years later, if it was not the artistic marvel that it is? Sure, a lot of people prefer the lens flares of Star Trek or the blue cats of Avatar to Prometheus, but they objectively have shit taste.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 12:33pm

To be fair, Prometheus has some rough edges (the seemingly tacked-on prologue and ending, in particular). Little annoyances like the crew taking off their helmets, and the guy finding the snake to be cute still bother me, but they don't ruin the film.

The bit about the crew not mentioning Shaw's surgery actually makes sense if you're paying attention. She completely zips up her uniform before Stringer Bell can see, and no one else even comes close to her. And like Higgins said about Weyland and his lackeys, I'm positive they couldn't care less what happens to Shaw and the rest of the crew, including Vickers, who is clumsily revealed to be Weyland's daughter. I don't think that reveal had the impact it was meant to have, but it did add an interesting dynamic for Charlize Theron to play off of.

I'm looking forward to seeing a cut with the extra 28 minutes for comparison, but I do think they nailed the pacing of the film, which an extended cut might botch.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 1:22pm

trippingmartian wrote:To be fair, Prometheus has some rough edges (the seemingly tacked-on prologue and ending, in particular). Little annoyances like the crew taking off their helmets, and the guy finding the snake to be cute still bother me, but they don't ruin the film.


People of science and (supposed) smarts arrive in a strange land find some stuff and come in contact with stuff and don't opt to call in for back up to home base [Earth...or Earf, which ever you prefer]. It doesn't ruin the film, but you do have to buy into the theatrical convention that these guys...aren't very smart.

trippingmartian wrote:The bit about the crew not mentioning Shaw's surgery actually makes sense if you're paying attention. She completely zips up her uniform before Stringer Bell can see, and no one else even comes close to her. And like Higgins said about Weyland and his lackeys, I'm positive they couldn't care less what happens to Shaw and the rest of the crew, including Vickers, who is clumsily revealed to be Weyland's daughter. I don't think that reveal had the impact it was meant to have, but it did add an interesting dynamic for Charlize Theron to play off of.


Which dynamic was that? The part where it is now okay to not care about any action of hers up to that point? Because not only is she on a fancy ass, billion dollar ship set for adventure. But that we are only on this adventure because daddy told her to?

trippingmartian wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing a cut with the extra 28 minutes for comparison, but I do think they nailed the pacing of the film, which an extended cut might botch.


It would be damn near impossible to make the characters behave dumber than they are already portrayed in the movie. I'm hoping for more bit characters and "engineers" to be left outside of the ship. Dying because of their own stupidity.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 1:40pm

Bboy_Izilla wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:To be fair, Prometheus has some rough edges (the seemingly tacked-on prologue and ending, in particular). Little annoyances like the crew taking off their helmets, and the guy finding the snake to be cute still bother me, but they don't ruin the film.


People of science and (supposed) smarts arrive in a strange land find some stuff and come in contact with stuff and don't opt to call in for back up to home base [Earth...or Earf, which ever you prefer]. It doesn't ruin the film, but you do have to buy into the theatrical convention that these guys...aren't very smart.

It's a corporate expedition that probably isn't even on the books. Besides, they would never be rescued in time.
Bboy_Izilla wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:The bit about the crew not mentioning Shaw's surgery actually makes sense if you're paying attention. She completely zips up her uniform before Stringer Bell can see, and no one else even comes close to her. And like Higgins said about Weyland and his lackeys, I'm positive they couldn't care less what happens to Shaw and the rest of the crew, including Vickers, who is clumsily revealed to be Weyland's daughter. I don't think that reveal had the impact it was meant to have, but it did add an interesting dynamic for Charlize Theron to play off of.


Which dynamic was that? The part where it is now okay to not care about any action of hers up to that point? Because not only is she on a fancy ass, billion dollar ship set for adventure. But that we are only on this adventure because daddy told her to?

That is your inference. It isn't conveyed in the film.
Bboy_Izilla wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing a cut with the extra 28 minutes for comparison, but I do think they nailed the pacing of the film, which an extended cut might botch.


It would be damn near impossible to make the characters behave dumber than they are already portrayed in the movie. I'm hoping for more bit characters and "engineers" to be left outside of the ship. Dying because of their own stupidity.

And that is why they died and Shaw survived. What is it you aren't understanding?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Lopsidedown » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 1:42pm

I'm still baffled by the part where you claimed that Cameron fucked up the franchise...
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 2:20pm

trippingmartian wrote:
Bboy_Izilla wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:I'm looking forward to seeing a cut with the extra 28 minutes for comparison, but I do think they nailed the pacing of the film, which an extended cut might botch.


It would be damn near impossible to make the characters behave dumber than they are already portrayed in the movie. I'm hoping for more bit characters and "engineers" to be left outside of the ship. Dying because of their own stupidity.

And that is why they died and Shaw survived. What is it you aren't understanding?


I don't think I said I misunderstood anything. Did you see my review? I love it when dumb people die in film. I just hate that it's so obviously telegraphed in this movie.

Seriously, was anyone surprised by any deaths and reveals in this film?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Guillermo_DudeL » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 3:02pm

I just want Ridley Scott to get his shit together and make the Forever War already.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 3:08pm

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby jw_6179 » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 3:29pm

Prometheus tried far too hard to be "deep" for me. One of the reasons I liked Alien and Aliens is that it had characters you could relate with realistic dialogue. Most of the dialogue of Prometheus seemed to be trying to be too clever for itself.

It's not that I dislike complex movies. But one of the reasons I like Alien was because it had a realistic setting -- not just the world, but the people too. Prometheus was full of movie characters instead of people, saying movie dialogue rather than having a conversation. The film was also schizophrenic. It didn't seem like it knew what it wanted to be. Is this a film about science and religion? Faith? The origin of what we are? Well, we're an hour in, better throw in a few monsters, a couple chases, a "gross out" scene and some sequel bait where we assure folks there are answers out there, in 2014!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Adam Fitch » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 3:48pm

trippingmartian wrote:The dialogue is stilted and corny in the Terminator films, especially in Terminator 2. Just one of many examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkrjitslCSE


I haven't seen T2 in years, but that scene is hilarious. I (actually) laughed out loud.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 4:42pm

That Terminator 2 scene screams of ADR.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 5:24pm

God, Higgins I love you, but your apologizing for Prometheus is the worst. Your logic is the worst. Everyone is incompetent to the point of being mentally handicapped because - Weyland wants the mission to fail - because he doesn't care??? Do you understand how that makes no sense? Not caring means he doesn't actually give a rats ass, meaning he doesn't invest any amount of effort one way or the other. So why go through the effort to get the *worst* people possible? If he doesn't care, then they'd hire qualified people according to procedure instead of this convention of losers who have one too many chromosomes. If they're all totally expendable and they don't actually need them doing their jobs, why hire professionals to begin with? Why not just pick up space-immigrants from the space-Home Depot without even the faintest pretexts of being "geologists" or whatever (hell, why even bother hiring anybody). You understand how science and scientists work, right? Even the worst fucking scientists in the world know not to do the things these idiots did - especially if they're the self-interested mercs you assert them to be (you know, since they care about surviving first and foremost).

As for making excuses why certain things happening in the film because they happened in Alien - that's part of what makes this a bad film. On the one hand, it's very obviously trying to do and say something smart. But then on the other hand, it's using a cookie-cutter to transplant scenarios from a previous film into this one in ways that they don't fit or make sense internally to the film. That logic explains why these scenes exist, but it doesn't make them a good idea. In fact, it makes the movie worse, because if you've seen the old films, you know exactly what's going to happen since everything is directly telegraphed and any sense of suspense for the unknown is wiped out.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 5:28pm

Adam Fitch wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:The dialogue is stilted and corny in the Terminator films, especially in Terminator 2. Just one of many examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkrjitslCSE
I haven't seen T2 in years, but that scene is hilarious. I (actually) laughed out loud.
Yeah, a lot of people (like myself) love this film *because* of the stilted and corny dialog.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby kenzo » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 5:33pm

trippingmartian wrote:Films are a visual medium. As long as Ridley Scott is at the helm of a Blade Runner follow-up, why wouldn't you be excited? Did he not just shit on every science fiction film made in the last 20 years, at least visually speaking? Or to put it another way, would people still be talking about Metroppolis 80 years later, if it was not the artistic marvel that it is? Sure, a lot of people prefer the lens flares of Star Trek or the blue cats of Avatar to Prometheus, but they objectively have shit taste.
First: thank you for actually explaining your positions. I disagree with them, but I respect your opinions since they're actual opinions instead of stupid schlock like "GTFO"

Second: Movies are more than about just visuals. If I just want to see pretty visuals, I can pick up a magazine, or go visit an art exhibit. If that's all you care about or look forward to, then that's fine - different strokes for different folks. But I need my movies to have good stories and good dialog on top of good visuals. And Prometheus failed to deliver on those accounts. And while a Blade Runner sequel will undoubtedly look good, I have no faith in it being a good film that justifies itself with a good story, good characters, and good dialog after all these years - especially considering how disappointing Prometheus was. With the recent track record of fraudulent sequels made twenty years later (like Indiana Jones, or Star Wars, or Prometheus) I'm kind of over this nostalgia-mining and would rather see something original.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Konanda » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 6:47pm

Bboy_Izilla wrote:To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html


So is this the age of the internet where people just post links to their blog instead of an actual post on message boards?

trippingmartian wrote:but they objectively have shit taste.


This is a misnomer, someone's taste or to say an individual's aesthetic preference is an inherently subjective concept, there is no objectivity to it. That said I quite enjoyed the aesthetic of Blade Runner.

Also this is not to say that aesthetics cannot be objectively analysed and studied for such things as influence from previous works, symbolism and the like. However to say that one person's preference is correct and another is incorrect is supremely arrogant, flawed and naive.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Bboy_Izilla » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 6:55pm

Konanda wrote:
Bboy_Izilla wrote:To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html


So is this the age of the internet where people just post links to their blog instead of an actual post on message boards?



Because that's all I've ever done here right? Everyone one knows the Geekbox forum is the best place to get clicks on old stuff you posted, right? :roll:
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Konanda » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 6:57pm

Bboy_Izilla wrote:
Konanda wrote:
Bboy_Izilla wrote:To: Ryan Higgins
From: Me

Here are my thoughts http://www.itbrog.com/journal/2012/6/10/brometheus.html


So is this the age of the internet where people just post links to their blog instead of an actual post on message boards?



Because that's all I've ever done here right? Everyone one knows the Geekbox forum is the best place to get clicks on old stuff you posted, right? :roll:


I never said that is the only thing you have ever done.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 7:02pm

Konanda wrote:
trippingmartian wrote:but they objectively have shit taste.


This is a misnomer, someone's taste or to say an individual's aesthetic preference is an inherently subjective concept, there is no objectivity to it. That said I quite enjoyed the aesthetic of Blade Runner.

Also this is not to say that aesthetics cannot be objectively analysed and studied for such things as influence from previous works, symbolism and the like. However to say that one person's preference is correct and another is incorrect is supremely arrogant, flawed and naive.


I am often prone to hyperbole.

Kermode and Ebert's reviews of the film were somewhat interesting, but I think this reviewer nailed it. He also draws attention to some interesting theories, for those still interested. I particularly enjoyed the bit where he compares critic and audience reactions to Alien at the time of release to the release and reaction of Prometheus. :lol:

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby Lopsidedown » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 8:19pm

There's a lot of movies that critics and audiences didn't like then but they still don't like now.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 173

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 21st, 2012 @ 10:47pm

Lopsidedown wrote:There's a lot of movies that critics and audiences didn't like then but they still don't like now.

The main point he was making there was that audiences of Alien were left with more unanswered questions than audiences of Prometheus were left with.
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