Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Rydog » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 1:04am

This week on the Geekbox, it's the Ryan Higgins Hates Everything Special.

Also: Come play Team Fortress 2 with our forum regulars this Sunday, as the community is celebrating the Geekbox TF2 server's two-year anniversary! You just might win a prize, like a copy of L.A. Noire, Quantum Conundrum, or Bastion!

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 1:09am

Rydog wrote:...it's the Ryan Higgins Hates Everything Special.
Is this in jest? Cause sometimes I think the guy likes too much shit. There are way too many mediocre movies that he loses his mind to.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby joeben81 » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 5:19am

Rydog wrote:...it's the Ryan Higgins Hates Everything Special.


More like the Higgins is Wrong About Everything Special. Painful.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby puppybox » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 6:07am

I love it when Ryan hates everything
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Master Higgins » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 8:15am

kenzo wrote:
Rydog wrote:...it's the Ryan Higgins Hates Everything Special.
Is this in jest? Cause sometimes I think the guy likes too much shit. There are way too many mediocre movies that he loses his mind to.


:lol:

Yeah, in this episode, I hate on such amazingly great companies as Gamestop, Google, Amazon, and Walmart.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby LiQuid » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 9:47am

Love it when FF7 makes the show notes cut!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby lunch » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 1:32pm

I registered just so I can say that I love Ryan Higgins. Outside of his awful taste in movies, I've always agreed with everything's he said, and it's amazing to watch everybody else on the show completely unravel and devolve into non-sequitur arguments. I do love Amazon though, but listening to The Comics Conspiracy made me start buying monthly comics so I can support my local comic store.

I disagree on Toy Story 3, but Up was only okay.

So keep on being amazing Ryan.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Shelliac » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 2:30pm

In regards to the Wikipedia Diving ... is anyone else familiar with the game in which you start with The Pope and try to find the smallest number of clicks to get to a Cleveland Steamer?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 2:34pm

Master Higgins wrote:
kenzo wrote:
Rydog wrote:...it's the Ryan Higgins Hates Everything Special.
Is this in jest? Cause sometimes I think the guy likes too much shit. There are way too many mediocre movies that he loses his mind to.
:lol:

Yeah, in this episode, I hate on such amazingly great companies as Gamestop, Google, Amazon, and Walmart.
You know my feelings about all those places, so feel free to hate away. Everyone else on the podcast doesn't have a problem/conscious when it comes to throwing their dollars at soulless, heartless, faceless, multinational conglomerates. And that's fine - everyone can have their own opinion about how economics work. But it's always rubbed me the wrong way how defensive, accusatory, and condescending everyone else on the podcast has been towards your views of supporting small businesses and rejecting downloadable games/digital media. I love Karen, but every time she flips out at you Ryan for hating on digital media because your livelihood deals with print - I roll my eyes extra hard. Of course the lady whose livelihood was all about digital media and digitally distributed games is all about going digital - which again is fine, but she's basically calling the kettle black - calling you out for your biases when she's just as biased.

I actually do like Google though. Compared to people like Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook they've been extraordinarily principled; not price-gouging consumers simply because they can; that they've fiercely guarded users personal information; their huge philanthropic ventures and pie-in-the-sky R&D projects. But the amount I've grown reliant on them for their services gives me pause, and given that at the end of the day they're a corporation that's for profit - at any moment they could turn on users and start attempting to bleed them dry just like every other business that's been listed.

Also, you hate Pixar or something? I still enjoy their films a lot, but I don't think they're the hot-shit they used to be. It's probably just 100% hipster-mentality, TBH. But they've grown too big, and their stuff is starting to feel a little too formulaic. They've been on track to multiply their film output, they're bending more and more to the will of Disney (the only reason Toy Story 3 and Cars 2 even got made in the first place), they've recently expanded their Emeryville campus, and they're even in the middle of opening a new studio in Vancouver. It all wreaks of growing too big for their britches, and it's really only a matter of time until the quality of their films starts to hurt (even more than it's already happened).
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Lopsidedown » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 2:37pm

I just need a clarification from Ryan.
If Amazon had a physical store in your area, would you then have no issue with it?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby flufflogic » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 3:01pm

I was all ready to defend him until I read on Twitter he hated on Up. Now... he deserves what he gets.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 3:14pm

flufflogic wrote:I was all ready to defend him until I read on Twitter he hated on Up. Now... he deserves what he gets.
He deserves to be harangued and verbally harassed because he has a different opinion than you on a subjective piece of art? Just clarifying here.

BTW - Up was fun and I enjoyed it, but it's totally overrated.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Master Higgins » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 3:36pm

lunch wrote:So keep on being amazing Ryan.


I will, thanks! :lol:

kenzo wrote:Also, you hate Pixar or something? I still enjoy their films a lot, but I don't think they're the hot-shit they used to be. It's probably just 100% hipster-mentality, TBH. But they've grown too big, and their stuff is starting to feel a little too formulaic. They've been on track to multiply their film output, they're bending more and more to the will of Disney (the only reason Toy Story 3 and Cars 2 even got made in the first place), they've recently expanded their Emeryville campus, and they're even in the middle of opening a new studio in Vancouver. It all wreaks of growing too big for their britches, and it's really only a matter of time until the quality of their films starts to hurt (even more than it's already happened).


I like Pixar just fine, but like you, I feel their stuff is super formulaic these days. I loved Incredibles, I liked Ratatouille way more than I thought I would, and I really want to see Brave. I'm just not into sad movies.

Lopsidedown wrote:I just need a clarification from Ryan.
If Amazon had a physical store in your area, would you then have no issue with it?


Here's my preferred order of shopping.

Small, local retailer -> Specialty chain store (Best Buy, Fry's, Gamestop) -> Big Box store (Target, Costco, Walmart) -> Online retailer (Amazon, Newegg)

I'd shop at an Amazon store, sure, but it wouldn't be my first stop.

kenzo wrote:
flufflogic wrote:I was all ready to defend him until I read on Twitter he hated on Up. Now... he deserves what he gets.
He deserves to be harangued and verbally harassed because he has a different opinion than you on a subjective piece of art? Just clarifying here.


I find most people seem to think things must be either/or. I didn't hate Toy Story 3 or Up, I just didn't love them, and I don't like sad movies. I'm an emotionless monster :(
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Guillermo_DudeL » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 3:50pm

This is my favorite episode.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 4:29pm

Master Higgins wrote:I'm just not into sad movies.
I feel like this is a perfectly reasonable reason to not like a movie. Different people watch different movies for different reasons. I don't usually watch horror films because I usually don't enjoy being grossed out. I enjoy sad movies sometimes, but there are times where I just want things to be escapist (which is usually why I'm not big on dark comedies because I'm there to laugh, not to feel all deep and emotional). Up spends a large chunk of the film being sad, nostalgic, and tugging on people's heart strings - and if all you want is a fluffy-adventure, Up isn't going to deliver on that. I really liked Up for those reasons, but I understand why others would dislike it for the same thing.

Master Higgins wrote:I find most people seem to think things must be either/or.
I get this a lot. Most of the time I get blasted for being a hater, I actually rather enjoyed something, I just had some issues with it that kept it from being something I *loved* versus something I merely liked. So for example, I enjoyed The Avengers, but had some issues with it - and when explaining in meticulous detail what it was that I had problems with, I get labeled a hater. Same with Prometheus. You've said, "at the very least" it was an enjoyable and beautiful film with some problems, and that's what I thought. I was just extremely disappointed because I thought a film with "Ridley Scott" attached was going to be a lot more intelligent, have a much more consistent/less meandering tone, with a lot less plot holes (or things that only existed in the film because they were Alien-tropes that needed to be there in an Alien-movie).
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby flufflogic » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 4:34pm

kenzo wrote:
flufflogic wrote:I was all ready to defend him until I read on Twitter he hated on Up. Now... he deserves what he gets.
He deserves to be harangued and verbally harassed because he has a different opinion than you on a subjective piece of art? Just clarifying here.

BTW - Up was fun and I enjoyed it, but it's totally overrated.

Has your tongue in cheek chip died or something? Do you really take internets this serious?
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby seamus2389 » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 6:28pm

I do think Amazon's avoiding of sales tax in the US is dodgy as fuck although an argument could be made that money lost in sales tax is collected in the money saved in state and taxed anyway.

Also the law of large numbers and the fact that software isn't perfect means Amazon probably does mis-charge people on a daily basis

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby jesseewiak » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 9:48pm

Also, Higgins was totally right about Amazon's treatment of warehouse employees even compared to the median warehouse employee (http://articles.mcall.com/2011-09-18/ne ... rutal-heat)(http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... uses-labor). The whole conversation about that reeked of an undercurrent of, "well, they're just dumb people who can't do anything better working in a warehouse. Why should they be comfortable?"

Edited to add: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/24 ... n-20120524

"Amazon founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos said the company would spend $52 million this year retrofitting its warehouses with air conditioning. Amazon has come under heavy criticism for conditions at its warehouses after a Pennsylvania newspaper reported that employees were forced to work in temperatures above 100 degrees last summer."

Uh oh, you might have to pay .05 cents extra for your DVD's!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby trippingmartian » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 10:53pm

So there's an early discussion about how Google is actively censoring one of Ryan's favourite websites, and just a few short moments later they are scoffing at the fact that Higgins finds Google to be invasive and untrustworthy.

Image
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 27th, 2012 @ 11:12pm

seamus2389 wrote:I do think Amazon's avoiding of sales tax in the US is dodgy as fuck although an argument could be made that money lost in sales tax is collected in the money saved in state and taxed anyway.
Nope.
1.) That's assuming the money saved from buying things at Amazon then gets spent in-state/in-town, and not dumped elsewhere like say, buying more shit from Amazon, or say, buying groceries or things that the sales tax is not applicable for.
2.) The money saved in sales tax, if spent on something else in state, is still going to provide way less revenue for for the state and local municipalities - Let's say you buy $100 of stuff from Amazon. For example, if you live in California, you saved around $5-12 in sales tax depending on where in CA you live and who you bought from. If you turn around and spend that $5-12 dollars in-state, then that money would only only provide $0.24-1.28 in tax revenue. That's drastically less money going into state and city coffers.

Of course, this argument over the sales tax would be a moot point if we didn't have to rely on regressive forms of taxation to begin with. But I would still have qualms with Amazon for practicing a form of exploitative colonial-mercantilism: where they extract wealth from communities by selling them goods but returning nothing to those communities - no jobs/salaries, corporate taxes, nothing.

flufflogic wrote:Has your tongue in cheek chip died or something? Do you really take internets this serious?
Over the internet, I can't see your tongue planted in your cheek.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby deadairis » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 1:00am

Reasonable: I will not shop at a mega-store for something, even it it is easier, in order to encourage (niche shop X).
E.g., I shop at the local (chain) pet stores, rather than getting identical items at Target. Target has lots of the things I buy from the pet store and are cheaper at Target. But they don't have the weird stuff (our pit bull has tons of allergies, so his food requirements are strict).
Not reasonable: Claiming I am therefore shopping "local" in any meaningful way, let alone shopping in such a manner as to counter large-scale retailers reach.

My issue with Higgin's claims are never that he feels a certain way. It's that he starts from broad claims, gets clawed back from them, and then picks one small defendable portion of his original claim and treats everyone still discussing his original claim like they made it up (e.g., "I don't hate google!" shortly after explaining why he thought they were evil).

It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a childish way to speak. It punishes people for assuming that what he says is worth listening to, even to him.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Karen » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 1:06am

kenzo wrote: I love Karen, but every time she flips out at you Ryan for hating on digital media because your livelihood deals with print - I roll my eyes extra hard. Of course the lady whose livelihood was all about digital media and digitally distributed games is all about going digital - which again is fine, but she's basically calling the kettle black - calling you out for your biases when she's just as biased.


My most recent 3 employers/contract:
- NDA company - Magazine
- E3/ESA - Magazine/Newspaper
- GamePro - Magazine

I'm pretty sure magazines are made of paper. Which one can assume that my recent "livelihood" deals with print.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Karen » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 1:06am

deadairis wrote:Reasonable: I will not shop at a mega-store for something, even it it is easier, in order to encourage (niche shop X).
E.g., I shop at the local (chain) pet stores, rather than getting identical items at Target. Target has lots of the things I buy from the pet store and are cheaper at Target. But they don't have the weird stuff (our pit bull has tons of allergies, so his food requirements are strict).
Not reasonable: Claiming I am therefore shopping "local" in any meaningful way, let alone shopping in such a manner as to counter large-scale retailers reach.

My issue with Higgin's claims are never that he feels a certain way. It's that he starts from broad claims, gets clawed back from them, and then picks one small defendable portion of his original claim and treats everyone still discussing his original claim like they made it up (e.g., "I don't hate google!" shortly after explaining why he thought they were evil).

It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a childish way to speak. It punishes people for assuming that what he says is worth listening to, even to him.


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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 1:42am

deadairis wrote:My issue with Higgin's claims are never that he feels a certain way. It's that he starts from broad claims, gets clawed back from them, and then picks one small defendable portion of his original claim and treats everyone still discussing his original claim like they made it up (e.g., "I don't hate google!" shortly after explaining why he thought they were evil).

It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a childish way to speak. It punishes people for assuming that what he says is worth listening to, even to him.
I just got done explaining in another thread about the off-the-cuff manner of this show, and I think it bears repeating here. I don't think it's entirely fair to hold Higgins, or anyone else on the podcast to your exacting standards of logical discourse. Not everyone is as eloquent as you are Patrick, nor are they capable of forming logical arguments on the fly as well as you either.

Also, for the sake of arguing, I don't think it's a contradiction to say that you don't hate something, but to think that they're evil. For example, I think micro-transactions are evil, but my life is full of so many more pressing priorities and issues that I can't really muster up the enthusiasm or emotional investment to legitimately "hate" them. I just find them annoying for being inconvenient, exploitative, and unprincipled. Things can exist in an area between hate and love - emotions encompass a vast spectrum of complicated and nuanced feelings. Emotions are also an inherently irrational thing anyways, so it's always silly to talk about one's logical justification of something inherently irrational.

Edit: After listening to this episode, I'm struggling to understand exactly what was unreasonable about Higgins' "buying local" opinion. Yes, Gamestop is not a "local" company. However, buying from a "local" Gamestop is still spending locally within your immediate community versus going to the next town over, or buying things off of Amazon where absolutely zero percent of the money you gave them goes towards the local economy. Gamestop might be an international company with its corporate headquarters in another state. But when you spend money at Gamestop, you're still giving a business within your local state/municipality money - a sizeable chunk of which goes towards paying local sales taxes, paying local property taxes, paying local utilities, paying local people's salaries, etc. None of that holds true when you buy from Amazon; none of the money you gave them gets reinvested into your local economy. So no, you're not buying from mom & pop when you buy from Gamestop, but if you care about your community it's the better alternative to buying from Amazon.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby flufflogic » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 1:47am

Currently listening. Higgins, you hate interconnectivity? Seriously? I love the fact I don't need to make a new account for every damn website I want to comment on, I can use my Twitter or Facebook to instantly validate my human-hood for comments threads! It annoys me that Google won't let me alter my account so I can redirect it to my new email address, but whatever, it took seconds for me to solve the issue thanks to interconnectivity!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 2:05am

Karen wrote:
kenzo wrote: I love Karen, but every time she flips out at you Ryan for hating on digital media because your livelihood deals with print - I roll my eyes extra hard. Of course the lady whose livelihood was all about digital media and digitally distributed games is all about going digital - which again is fine, but she's basically calling the kettle black - calling you out for your biases when she's just as biased.
My most recent 3 employers/contract:
- NDA company - Magazine
- E3/ESA - Magazine/Newspaper
- GamePro - Magazine

I'm pretty sure magazines are made of paper. Which one can assume that my recent "livelihood" deals with print.
I stand corrected about your recent job history, I'm sorry. But I still hold to my original point that I don't think it's fair to dismiss his perspective/opinions just because of his vocation - which you've repeatedly done in the past. For the record, I think neither of you are right or wrong, you simply have different values and there's nothing wrong about that. I'm just criticizing you because you seem unnaturally insistent on telling/convincing Higgins that his values are wrong, when they're simply different. And that's all he ever argues. "I like what I like."

P.S. Please don't interpret my eye-rolling as an indictment either - I *love* listening to the drama. It fills that same itch that watching some reality tv does; it's way more interesting than everyone always getting along peachy 100% of the time. Also,

Karen wrote:THE BEAST AWAKENS.
LOL. You should unchain the beast more often - Patrick always has interesting/entertaining things to say.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 2:15am

flufflogic wrote:Currently listening. Higgins, you hate interconnectivity? Seriously? I love the fact I don't need to make a new account for every damn website I want to comment on, I can use my Twitter or Facebook to instantly validate my human-hood for comments threads! It annoys me that Google won't let me alter my account so I can redirect it to my new email address, but whatever, it took seconds for me to solve the issue thanks to interconnectivity!
Time to spam this thread!

I don't like interconnectivity - especially with things like Facebook. I don't want the Wall-Street Journal to have access to all my personal/private information on Facebook, simply because I pressed "like" on one of their articles. And some things on the internet, I don't want everyone on my facebook friends list to know I read or look at. I don't want that dude-bro who I used to work with but haven't talked to in years to know that I think there's no way Sasuke could beat Naruto if they went head-to-head right now. Interconnectivity is designed to make things simpler, but under the surface it complicates things in all kinds of untold and annoying ways.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby puppybox » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 5:51am

Ryan Scott hyped this episode much worse then Ryan Higgins (apparently) hyped his gamestop story

Ryan Scott: Ryan Higgins hates EVERYTHING
Reality: Higgins calmly and logically explains his views, most of which are right or very easily understood and defended. Rest of podcast has a breakdown

In fact there was a distinct lack of Higgins Hate, he really should have let loose on Up.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby Jaebird » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 7:17am

Wait, am I listening to an old episode? I thought we covered "people get angry at where Higgins buys his shit".

Edit: Also, yeah, that's a pretty lame GameStop story, rude clerk aside.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 174

Postby kenzo » Jun 28th, 2012 @ 9:35am

puppybox wrote:Ryan Scott hyped this episode much worse then Ryan Higgins (apparently) hyped his gamestop story

Ryan Scott: Ryan Higgins hates EVERYTHING
Reality: Higgins calmly and logically explains his views, most of which are right or very easily understood and defended. Rest of podcast has a breakdown

In fact there was a distinct lack of Higgins Hate, he really should have let loose on Up.
At this point, I wonder if we're being trolled here - like if this isn't some kind of riff on people going bonkers after the Prometheus-episode or something. Because I just listened to this episode and wooooooooooooooooooowwwwww that was unjustifably harsh. I really hope that's the case because the rest of the cast come off really really bad here. Like, if-I-took-this-more-seriously-I-would-consider-unsubscribing-level of bad. I don't even know where to begin, but Higgins had totally reasonable opinions/perspectives (for the record, I agreed with him almost 95% of the podcast) and argued them in a calm, respectful, and even jokingly manner. If this was a conversation with my friends, and if I was in Higgins' position I probably would have cursed the room out and punched Adam in the gut before leaving. In fact, Adam's insults and Ryan's nonstop strawman arguments are chiefly what leads me to believe/hope this is one big joke.
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