Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:05am

Also, people don't seem to understand the difference between being sexist and a misogynist.
CrossXhunteR
User avatar
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2010 @ 2:09pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:56am

CrossXhunteR wrote:Also, people don't seem to understand the difference between being sexist and a misogynist.
Cross, very often they go hand-in-hand...
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby Vyria » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 12:27pm

Master Higgins wrote:I understand why people are upset about the cover, but like most "controversies" like this, it's just more fake anger. You admit yourself that Aspen puts out a dozen worse covers every month, not to mention Crossed "torture" covers, and dozens of worse covers. So why the anger over this Spider-Woman cover and not these other covers every month? Because Marvel announces the comic at a Women of Marvel panel or some other such lip-service? People online have some amazing sense of entitlement when it comes to Marvel and DC characters, it's amazing. They're corporate owned comics, not yours. If you don't like the comic because of a 1:100 variant cover that literally 10 people might buy, don't buy it.

Land is far from my favorite artist, but he's another artist that has been just dog-piled on by the internet comicsphere (who represent a fraction of actual comic customers, who are the only people that matter...if you're not spending money, no one cares, because sales are the only thing that matter). Manara is an amazing artist who has drawn porn for 40 years. All his previous Marvel covers have been sexual to some extent. If you think this cover represents men wanting to rape women or Marvel hates women or anything like that, I don't know what to say. No one cares about this except Comics Alliance and a handful of people on tumblr.

And then there's covers like this...

Image

Where was the controversy?

If you haven't read Manara's reply, it's worth a read. I can't find the drawing, but he actually does a reversal drawing to show the perspective.

http://www.fumettologica.it/2014/08/una ... americani/
Manara wrote:Browsing on the internet, I have seen that criticisms have two different directions. One points out to the sexy and erotic side; the other to some anatomical mistakes. About the incompetence in the drawing … I don’t know what to say. I just try to do my best, since 40 years to date. Nobody is perfect, and I may be wrong; simply, I’m a professional, so I do my best.


If you've listened to 170 episodes of all the dumb crap we say every week, you probably should know we're all just a bunch of dumb men who just like to read some comics. I'm not SJW Comics, I just like grown men punching things. It's topics like this just make me shake my head and laugh, because next week there will be some other controversy du jour.

You're calling a marginalized group entitled for feeling betrayed when a company has a book that appears to reach out to them, then does this? The vast majority of comics are grown men punching things marketed directly towards you, but you roll your eyes and deride the big two's attempts to market to other demographics. I feel like you're part of the group that feels entitled here. You're right though, these are corporate owned characters, and Marvel is here to sell books. Maybe that's why they should care about how they market to women and treat female characters. By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days, and for Marvel or DC to do things to turn away that demographic is bad business.

As for Land, he's capable artist when he's actually drawing. Nearly all his output since his early work has been nothing but tracing movie stills, porn, or other people's art. His swipe file is bigger than many people's portfolios and there are so many hard working and talented artists that deserve work over someone that lazy and dishonest.

Comparing those two covers is absurd. Yes, Spider-Man has sculpted butt cheeks, but if you can't tell the difference between a male power fantasy and an sexual objectification I don't know what to say. The Spider-Man cover has him with rippling muscles and menacing some criminals he has defeated, it's a similar view, but it's framed closer to even with the viewer with Spider-Man rising above. The Spider Woman cover is framed with the viewer towering above Spider-Woman like she's crawling towards them submissively or seductively. I still think the art is horrid on just a technical basis and I think Manara's quote is him owning up to the fact it may not be his best piece.

At any rate, a cheesecake cover isn't the issue. Manara himself isn't the issue. Sexy art isn't a problem. There's a place for cheesecake and pornographic comics and all of that. Adam Hughes and Frank Cho are two of my favorite artists and they deserve all the work they get. The problem is Marvel's boneheaded decision on asking Manara to do a cover for this book at this time. Hopeless has said the book isn't supposed to feature a sexualized version of Spider Woman and doing the Manara variant feels like a betrayal to readers who were excited about a book that might be something they enjoy. The only way I can think to convey the issue here is, what if every male comic character were Dick Grayson? What if male characters couldn't show up in a book without being shirtless down to that cut v shape near the crotch? What if the only character beats revolved around their sexual encounters with a lady character? Every book featuring a dude? Would you not feel objectified? Would you not get tired of sitting through sweaty shirtless dudes and buttshots? Wouldn't you want a book to feature a dude just punching someone without sitting through pages about their boners? I mean, Toby might be happy, but I imagine everyone else might want a little variation. Dick is a great character, but sometimes it's nice to have books in different styles or see characters express other facets of their personalities.

Women aren't demanding books where people run around chopping off wieners. They just want superhero books that speak to them and are relevant to them and it's really frustrating to see such backlash towards their dissatisfaction with the status quo.
Vyria
User avatar
 
Posts: 93
Joined: May 13th, 2013 @ 2:42pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 12:39pm

I will have things to say about this later.
CrossXhunteR
User avatar
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2010 @ 2:09pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby darfox8 » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:12pm

Everyone hold on to your butts.
I stream games some times. Come and watch www.twitch.tv/darfox8 These are my Highlights.
darfox8
User avatar
 
Posts: 2899
Joined: Mar 8th, 2009 @ 3:23pm
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby LiQuid » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:24pm

Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]
LiQuid
User avatar
 
Posts: 28315
Joined: Mar 9th, 2009 @ 8:57pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby Vyria » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:43pm

LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]

Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/
Vyria
User avatar
 
Posts: 93
Joined: May 13th, 2013 @ 2:42pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:44pm

Vyria wrote:Finally, if I ever hear Omar call anyone a "triflin ass ho" or refer to women as bitches ever again, I'm done with the podcast. Next time there's a gender issue in comics news, just admit you guys can't talk about it in any kind of constructive way and move on.


Image


Edit: The fact that these Manara covers are every 1:100 it pretty ridiculous to change this into some gender issue.

Everything is a gender issue apparently. Beyonce at the VMAs, gender issue (muh feminism). Sofia Vergara at the Emmys, gender issue (OMFGBBQLOLCOPTER sexiat gaiz). Female college student shout stupid shit out a window a couple, gender issue (she was just expressing herself against the PATRIARCHY, shitlords). Zoey fucking Quinn, gender issue (and not a massive journalistic one).

Not everything a fucking gender issue, Manara draws ott women, big deal why should we chastise a straight male for drawing something that pleases him. Guarantee you wouldn't give the slightest fuck if this a was a female lesbian artist, because 'it okay to draw sexy women because no penis and with no penis there is no rape, right zuys?'.

You want women in comics books, video games and wherever you think they aren't, stop acting like women needs your fucking protection.

Also on the issues of Gotham Academy, Ms Marvel and the new Batgirl. All three of these books are looking to cater to a different type of comicbook reader. One the likes surfing the internet, getting on any bandwagon that exists and expressing their opinions on tumblr and twitter.
I have read Ms Marvel and at the start I thought it was just a complete and other marketing ploy (and fuck yeah it was) but I read more and I agree with the guys that Ms Marvel hasn't quite clicked on her own, but in Avengers she shines.
Gotham Academy I will read the first issue, get annoying at whatever social commentary they'll shove down my throat and read issue 2, then stop.
If the new Batgirl doesn't live up to the previous one I'll drop, but I truly look forward to whatever they do.

I'll do all this and then not care about them anymore.

Don't bring your stupid fucking social justice bullshit it the one place I can go to get away from it.
Last edited by SynysterBear on Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:48pm

Vyria wrote:What if male characters couldn't show up in a book without being shirtless down to that cut v shape near the crotch? What if the only character beats revolved around their sexual encounters with a lady character? Every book featuring a dude? Would you not feel objectified? Would you not get tired of sitting through sweaty shirtless dudes and buttshots? Wouldn't you want a book to feature a dude just punching someone without sitting through pages about their boners? I mean, Toby might be happy, but I imagine everyone else might want a little variation.
Toby would be happy, but I'm pretty sure homophobic Omar would have a conniption fit (re: His screeds against Arrow). :lol:
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby LiQuid » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 1:55pm

Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]

Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/

Liking something on Facebook does not equal paying customer. I'd wager a lot of these comic fans (both male and female) are more a fans of the culture around the characters in various media. How many of those Facebook likes are out spending money every Wednesday on comics? Show me some non-made up statistics that show women are buying half the world's comic books and I'll give you a cookie.
LiQuid
User avatar
 
Posts: 28315
Joined: Mar 9th, 2009 @ 8:57pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby darfox8 » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:00pm

Regardless of the current money spentatude of ladies. Trolling them with a shitty cover isn't the best course of action. I know little about how this book was pitched or marketed but if they really did want to make it for women it's pretty stupid.
I stream games some times. Come and watch www.twitch.tv/darfox8 These are my Highlights.
darfox8
User avatar
 
Posts: 2899
Joined: Mar 8th, 2009 @ 3:23pm
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby Vyria » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:02pm

LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]

Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/

Liking something on Facebook does not equal paying customer. I'd wager a lot of these comic fans (both male and female) are more a fans of the culture around the characters in various media. How many of those Facebook likes are out spending money every Wednesday on comics? Show me some non-made up statistics that show women are buying half the world's comic books and I'll give you a cookie.

Clearly those numbers don't represent 1:1 people who spend money on comic books but why do you think those numbers aren't broadly representative of demographic ratios for people who do spend money on comics?
Vyria
User avatar
 
Posts: 93
Joined: May 13th, 2013 @ 2:42pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:12pm

Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]

Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/

Liking something on Facebook does not equal paying customer. I'd wager a lot of these comic fans (both male and female) are more a fans of the culture around the characters in various media. How many of those Facebook likes are out spending money every Wednesday on comics? Show me some non-made up statistics that show women are buying half the world's comic books and I'll give you a cookie.

Clearly those numbers don't represent 1:1 people who spend money on comic books but why do you think those numbers aren't broadly representative of demographic ratios for people who do spend money on comics?


Because if that were 100% true then we would never have the issue of 'female' books being axed, unless it was just awful. Something like Ms Marvel wouldn't be slowly losing book orders.

We also wouldn't have articles like this http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=43610. Plainly says in the article that female lead books are hard to launch due to the demographic, and that more people need to buy female lead books.
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby LiQuid » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:19pm

Yep. Because every single time a book comes out that panders to female readers, it gets shitcanned in due time because nobody buys it. The worst part is I LIKE female-centric, tumblr-pandering comics but they never sell enough to stay in print.
LiQuid
User avatar
 
Posts: 28315
Joined: Mar 9th, 2009 @ 8:57pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:24pm

LiQuid wrote:Yep. Because every single time a book comes out that panders to female readers, it gets shitcanned in due time because nobody buys it. The worst part is I LIKE female-centric, tumblr-pandering comics but they never sell enough to stay in print.


Exactly.
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby Vyria » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:31pm

SynysterBear wrote:
LiQuid wrote:Yep. Because every single time a book comes out that panders to female readers, it gets shitcanned in due time because nobody buys it. The worst part is I LIKE female-centric, tumblr-pandering comics but they never sell enough to stay in print.


Exactly.

There are comics aside from superhero comics that women are likely buying and my entire point is that the big two do a shit job of marketing and promoting these books to new readers, either under promoting them like Higgins argues or straight up turning readers away with PR blunders of which this cover is most recent in a long list.

Are you going to tell me Saga isn't a massively successful book?
Vyria
User avatar
 
Posts: 93
Joined: May 13th, 2013 @ 2:42pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:38pm

Vyria wrote:
SynysterBear wrote:
LiQuid wrote:Yep. Because every single time a book comes out that panders to female readers, it gets shitcanned in due time because nobody buys it. The worst part is I LIKE female-centric, tumblr-pandering comics but they never sell enough to stay in print.


Exactly.


There are comics aside from superhero comics that women are likely buying and my entire point is that the big two do a shit job of marketing and promoting these books to new readers, either under promoting them like Higgins argues or straight up turning readers away with PR blunders of which this cover is most recent in a long list.

Are you going to tell me Saga isn't a massively successful book?


It is. Saga is pretty popular. We are not discussing indie books. We are discussing the big 2.

Also don't be ragging on the CC guys.
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby meDotJS » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 2:44pm

Vyria wrote:Comparing those two covers is absurd. Yes, Spider-Man has sculpted butt cheeks, but if you can't tell the difference between a male power fantasy and an sexual objectification I don't know what to say. The Spider-Man cover has him with rippling muscles and menacing some criminals he has defeated, it's a similar view, but it's framed closer to even with the viewer with Spider-Man rising above. The Spider Woman cover is framed with the viewer towering above Spider-Woman like she's crawling towards them submissively or seductively. I still think the art is horrid on just a technical basis and I think Manara's quote is him owning up to the fact it may not be his best piece.

First of all you're reading way too much into the angle. Do you really think comic book artists put THAT much thought into their covers? "Oh, we need to make the angle higher to make her look like she's crawling towards the reader trying to get into their pants." I doubt anything like that ever crossed anyone's mind. Considering how shitty the cover looks I bet they put zero thought towards it. They more likely just put her on the cover and had her climbing on a building because that's what spiders do.

Also I'd love to know what a female power fantasy and a male sex object both look like. I have this problem where all attractive men are labeled as power fantasies while all attractive women are labeled as sex objects, even though I'm guessing female power fantasies would be quite attractive and I'm betting most women are very much attracted to what you call a male power fantasy.

And on a final note that cover isn't the only shit thing, the costume is pretty shit too. I don't care how long it has existed, between the fins and the fish eyes that looks more like a Fish Girl costume than a Spider Woman costume. They need to redesign the whole thing.
Liquid wrote:"meDotJS - Today at 8:20 PM
I just googled it
and I'm wrong"
its official
even google says medot is wrong
meDotJS
User avatar
 
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sep 19th, 2012 @ 5:26pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 3:10pm

LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]
Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/
Liking something on Facebook does not equal paying customer. I'd wager a lot of these comic fans (both male and female) are more a fans of the culture around the characters in various media. How many of those Facebook likes are out spending money every Wednesday on comics? Show me some non-made up statistics that show women are buying half the world's comic books and I'll give you a cookie.
I don't really get this argument. "I know they like comics, but they aren't MY paying customers, so fuck 'em." Like, that's categorically awful business. You've clearly got a huge, untapped market here that's interested and engaged in your product and the culture that surrounds it. But the way free markets work is that consumers are free to patronize whatever/whoever they want, and it's up to private enterprise to make a compelling argument as to why consumers should be giving them money. "They don't buy comics" - that's not a fault of the demographic you're talking about, that's a failure of the comics industry to engage that demographic and sufficiently convince them to buy in.

SynysterBear wrote:Don't bring your stupid fucking social justice bullshit it the one place I can go to get away from it.
I'm going to bring up 'social justice' shit whenever I see you SynysterBear, just to piss you off. :twisted:
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby darfox8 » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 3:15pm

meDotJS wrote:
Vyria wrote:Comparing those two covers is absurd. Yes, Spider-Man has sculpted butt cheeks, but if you can't tell the difference between a male power fantasy and an sexual objectification I don't know what to say. The Spider-Man cover has him with rippling muscles and menacing some criminals he has defeated, it's a similar view, but it's framed closer to even with the viewer with Spider-Man rising above. The Spider Woman cover is framed with the viewer towering above Spider-Woman like she's crawling towards them submissively or seductively. I still think the art is horrid on just a technical basis and I think Manara's quote is him owning up to the fact it may not be his best piece.

First of all you're reading way too much into the angle. Do you really think comic book artists put THAT much thought into their covers? "Oh, we need to make the angle higher to make her look like she's crawling towards the reader trying to get into their pants." I doubt anything like that ever crossed anyone's mind. Considering how shitty the cover looks I bet they put zero thought towards it. They more likely just put her on the cover and had her climbing on a building because that's what spiders do.

Also I'd love to know what a female power fantasy and a male sex object both look like. I have this problem where all attractive men are labeled as power fantasies while all attractive women are labeled as sex objects, even though I'm guessing female power fantasies would be quite attractive and I'm betting most women are very much attracted to what you call a male power fantasy.

And on a final note that cover isn't the only shit thing, the costume is pretty shit too. I don't care how long it has existed, between the fins and the fish eyes that looks more like a Fish Girl costume than a Spider Woman costume. They need to redesign the whole thing.

Both male and female bodies are exaggerated but female bodies are the ones that are usually sexualized. If male's bodies were sexualized then they'd probably look more like Calvin Klein models(I know some do) than Superman.

Also while they might not put much thought into covers they still are probably drawing her from that angle for a reason. As it's been said before that Spidey cover was to show him in control and kinda badass, the Fish Gurl cover was to show her stealthy and sexy, possibly because she's a "trifflin ass hoe". Whether they did it on purpose or subconsciously she screams something on the cover. Something that Spidey isn't screaming on his.

I got no prob wit this guy going after the CC guys, they can take care of themselves, I just think this thing is a slight issue, or it can be. Maybe not industry breaking or anything but it worth pointing out and discouraging.
I stream games some times. Come and watch www.twitch.tv/darfox8 These are my Highlights.
darfox8
User avatar
 
Posts: 2899
Joined: Mar 8th, 2009 @ 3:23pm
Location: Ocala, Florida

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 3:24pm

kenzo wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:
LiQuid wrote:
Vyria wrote:By some metrics, women are almost half of the comic market these days

[citation needed]
Facebook self reporting http://comicsbeat.com/market-research-s ... omic-fans/
Liking something on Facebook does not equal paying customer. I'd wager a lot of these comic fans (both male and female) are more a fans of the culture around the characters in various media. How many of those Facebook likes are out spending money every Wednesday on comics? Show me some non-made up statistics that show women are buying half the world's comic books and I'll give you a cookie.
I don't really get this argument. "I know they like comics, but they aren't MY paying customers, so fuck 'em." Like, that's categorically awful business. You've clearly got a huge, untapped market here that's interested and engaged in your product and the culture that surrounds it. But the way free markets work is that consumers are free to patronize whatever/whoever they want, and it's up to private enterprise to make a compelling argument as to why consumers should be giving them money. "They don't buy comics" - that's not a fault of the demographic you're talking about, that's a failure of the comics industry to engage that demographic and sufficiently convince them to buy in.

SynysterBear wrote:Don't bring your stupid fucking social justice bullshit it the one place I can go to get away from it.
I'm going to bring up 'social justice' shit whenever I see you SynysterBear, just to piss you off. :twisted:


Image

To argue your first point let throw out a hypothetical right. You are a baker, you make the usual stuff. Loafs of bread, croissants, bagels etc etc. Someone on your FB asked for raisin bagels and a hundred people like it. You think oh thats cool people want raisin bagels I'll make them. You do a bit of cost price analyst and find that if you make 100 and sell just 50 you will breakeven. Happy days. The next day you only sell 16. You a little miffed, go onto your FB page and say 'I thought you guys wanted raisin bagels' the first commented back goes 'It was just a suggestion, don't blame us if your raisins bagels don't sell'.

Do see what I'm getting at?
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 3:38pm

Guys, meDot just threw in his towel into the debate. Y'all officially lost this one. :lol:
meDotJS wrote:Do you really think comic book artists put THAT much thought into their covers? "Oh, we need to make the angle higher to make her look like she's crawling towards the reader trying to get into their pants." I doubt anything like that ever crossed anyone's mind. Considering how shitty the cover looks I bet they put zero thought towards it. They more likely just put her on the cover and had her climbing on a building because that's what spiders do.
You've clearly never talked to someone who works in the advertising industry.

SynysterBear wrote:To argue your first point let throw out a hypothetical right. You are a baker, you make the usual stuff. Loafs of bread, croissants, bagels etc etc. Someone on your FB asked for raisin bagels and a hundred people like it. You think oh thats cool people want raisin bagels I'll make them. You do a bit of cost price analyst and find that if you make 100 and sell just 50 you will breakeven. Happy days. The next day you only sell 16. You a little miffed, go onto your FB page and say 'I thought you guys wanted raisin bagels' the first commented back goes 'It was just a suggestion, don't blame us if your raisins bagels don't sell'.

Do see what I'm getting at?
No, I still don't get this. Customer retention is still the responsibility of private enterprise. If you want them to come back, you have to cater to them and give them reasons to come back. And that's going to mean changing the way you do business instead of trying the same, tired, broken, 75 year old business model and throwing up your hands in dismay that people from the 21st Century don't find value in that.
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 3:43pm

Marvel did not ask him to do this as a Variant cover. They paid him to make a piece of Spider-Woman artwork ~6 months ago and finally used it for something.
CrossXhunteR
User avatar
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2010 @ 2:09pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby Konanda » Aug 28th, 2014 @ 8:57pm

Protip: talking about tumblr stuff only causes more tumblr, its literally an ouroboros that is occasionally interjected with content stolen from some other website. That and porn, because the internet.
Get outta here, Thunder Tits!
Konanda
User avatar
 
Posts: 8802
Joined: Mar 25th, 2009 @ 3:52pm
Location: Midwestern Ontario, Canada

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 6:18am

kenzo wrote:Guys, meDot just threw in his towel into the debate. Y'all officially lost this one. :lol:

meDotJS wrote:Do you really think comic book artists put THAT much thought into their covers? "Oh, we need to make the angle higher to make her look like she's crawling towards the reader trying to get into their pants." I doubt anything like that ever crossed anyone's mind. Considering how shitty the cover looks I bet they put zero thought towards it. They more likely just put her on the cover and had her climbing on a building because that's what spiders do.
You've clearly never talked to someone who works in the advertising industry.

SynysterBear wrote:To argue your first point let throw out a hypothetical right. You are a baker, you make the usual stuff. Loafs of bread, croissants, bagels etc etc. Someone on your FB asked for raisin bagels and a hundred people like it. You think oh thats cool people want raisin bagels I'll make them. You do a bit of cost price analyst and find that if you make 100 and sell just 50 you will breakeven. Happy days. The next day you only sell 16. You a little miffed, go onto your FB page and say 'I thought you guys wanted raisin bagels' the first commented back goes 'It was just a suggestion, don't blame us if your raisins bagels don't sell'.

Do see what I'm getting at?


No, I still don't get this. Customer retention is still the responsibility of private enterprise. If you want them to come back, you have to cater to them and give them reasons to come back. And that's going to mean changing the way you do business instead of trying the same, tired, broken, 75 year old business model and throwing up your hands in dismay that people from the 21st Century don't find value in that.


What I'm saying is that the likes of Marvel and DC are listening to potential customers but those potential customers are not, in the literal sense, buying what they are selling.
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 10:02am

SynysterBear wrote:What I'm saying is that the likes of Marvel and DC are listening to potential customers but those potential customers are not, in the literal sense, buying what they are selling.
Thank you, SynysterBear, for repeating an argument you already made and was perfectly understood, without justifying the core conceit that I'm actually arguing against. The notion that somehow it's OK to blame the demographic in question for not buying into your industry's bullshit, or that that the likes of Marvel and DC are actually sufficiently doing a good enough job to engage that demographic in the first place to deserve their money (which they aren't).

If you want to be like "yo, fuck these people, they don't buy my comics anyways" - like, that's fine, but it's you who is turning a back on potential customers, not the other way around. And that's the path of stagnation and death for an industry, not growth and long-term sustainability.
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 10:25am

Why is it wrong to be exclusionary?
CrossXhunteR
User avatar
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2010 @ 2:09pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby kenzo » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 11:38am

CrossXhunteR wrote:Why is it wrong to be exclusionary?
kenzo wrote:If you want to be like "yo, fuck these people, they don't buy my comics anyways" - like, that's fine, but it's you who is turning a back on potential customers, not the other way around. And that's the path of stagnation and death for an industry, not growth and long-term sustainability.
kenzo
User avatar
 
Posts: 26706
Joined: Apr 21st, 2009 @ 6:01pm

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby SynysterBear » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 11:55am

Image
Kenzo is a tumblrina.

http://i.imgur.com/Hc86Cdi.jpg
SynysterBear
User avatar
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan 29th, 2013 @ 2:40pm
Location: Roscommon

Re: The Comic Conspiracy Podcast Discussion Thread

Postby CrossXhunteR » Aug 29th, 2014 @ 1:03pm

Niches exist. Not everything has to be for everybody.
CrossXhunteR
User avatar
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2010 @ 2:09pm

PreviousNext
Forum Statistics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests

Options

Return to Site and Podcast Discussion

cron