Wherein we discuss Geekbox.net and individual episodes of our various podcasts.

The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Rydog » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 8:30am

You can listen to this week's episode of The Geekbox right here. And be sure to check out Bill Mudron's sweet poster artwork for the upcoming PAX 2009 GFW Radio reunion panel!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Jeku » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 9:31am

Awesome, can't wait to hear it today! I'm glad it's longer than usual too :)

For some reason I can't post a comment on your blog because I'm behind a proxy at work. Oh well.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby bayfield » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 1:04pm

I dunno if this was late in coming, but I'm glad I have something to listen to at work today.

*crickets*

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby jinpei05 » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 1:08pm

Karen: It's called Munchausen's Syndrome by proxy.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby kenzo » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 5:59pm

Gnarly!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Mullet_Power » Aug 13th, 2009 @ 7:10pm

Personally I think that Ryan Higgins is being a little naive thinking that Comics are even a little "internet proof". I mean just have a look at the Manga industry, a lot of manga readers read all there Manga online and the industry is hurting in North America because of it. Sure that has a lot to do with the fact that for most Manga the printed version is way behind what is available on the internet. But shows that the comic format is not "internet proof" at all.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby MCruz » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 9:37am

Mad Dog and Glory! THAT'S the Bill Murray movie we couldn't remember the name of--only it was Uma Thurman in it, not Gweneth Paltrow.

whew.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby graboids » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 10:26am

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Master Higgins » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 11:38am

Mullet_Power wrote:Personally I think that Ryan Higgins is being a little naive thinking that Comics are even a little "internet proof". I mean just have a look at the Manga industry, a lot of manga readers read all there Manga online and the industry is hurting in North America because of it. Sure that has a lot to do with the fact that for most Manga the printed version is way behind what is available on the internet. But shows that the comic format is not "internet proof" at all.


I'm sorry, I should have stated "western comics", as opposed to manga.

The average comic buyer is late 20s-40s with disposable income, same with manga. The problem is most western comics are aimed at adults, and manga, at least in the US, is seen as a kids thing to a large portion of the comic reading audience. It's a viewpoint I disagree with, but you can't argue facts that manga audience skewers a lot younger than western comics.

Check out Brian Hibbs' excellent Bookscan 2008 report here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=20119

There's one great line worth mentioning about the decline in sales of manga.

Further most (not all, but most) Manga is deep in the number-of-volumes per series. “Naruto" now has more than thirty-eight volumes in print, with many more to come. A bottom-line oriented look at what to stock and what not is going to say “Well, ‘Naruto’ sells very well, but to stock it all takes something like seven linear feet – maybe we don’t need to stock this thing which is somewhat similar to ‘Naruto,’ and also takes another four feet to display." “Western" comics tend to be more self-contained, and, even in multi-volume series, take up less rack space due to thinner volumes.

I also think it may be possible that manga has begun to hit some of the audience truths that Western comics have known for a long time. Historically, for the periodical comic, it was generally understood that the younger portions of the audience were only onboard for, say, four to six years – they started reading comics at age eight, they continued until twelve or thirteen, then they discovered girls or sports or cars or drugs, or whatever, and they stopped reading comics altogether at that point. The modern Direct Market allowed the production of work that appealed thematically to adults, and brought people back to the form once they became of college age, keeping them as customers for another twenty years or more. What I suspect is possible is that some of the longest term readers of modern manga production may now be starting to “age out" of material aimed at younger readers, but have not made the jump (or found the properties that engage them) as older readers.


I think you're likely to find a lot of kids downloading manga online from fansubs because 1. It's free and 2. Like you said, way ahead of the printed material. That's not a problem in the US for western comics. Your first time getting a comic is Wednesday on the rack at your LCS. Timeliness always beats out price.

Another reason I think manga is suffering over comics is because of the art style. Manga, in the collected form, is printed small. It's been reported over the last few weeks that a lot of manga is being read on cell phones in Japan. I've read a few comics on my iPhone, and do not find it at all comparable to reading the printed book. This is less of a problem with manga, due to the art style. I love manga art, but in a lot of them, there is a lot less dialogue and a lot less going on in a given panel than their western counterparts.

If a truly awesome comic reader app comes out (looks like Longbox might be close), there will be people that download comics as opposed to buy them in stores, but I do not foresee a major shift like music. I still see a lot of resistance to watching tv shows on the computer, legal and free from the websites. Most people I know would rather watch them on their tv. But I've got 20 years on the kids that have always had major internet access in their life.

Are novels and comics going to be downloadable and read on cell phones/computers? Yes. Will it be as wide-spread at music? I don't believe so.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby lemon-fresh » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 11:57am

I wanna play 2.

RebelFM vs GeekBox

I haven't figured out a caption yet.

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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby darfox8 » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 12:37pm

This whole Manga/Comic internet proofing thing is kinda crazy to me. I don't think you could attribute one golden rule or reason as to why it will or will never happen. I'm not at all an expert so I can only tell you my anecdotal evidence.

Last night I stayed up to 3AM(east coast) waiting for the new Naruto chapter to be uploaded. After Jimmy Fallon ended I watched the second half of Bringing out the Dead. Around 3:15 I got smart and read a forum to see what was going on and it turns out that there is no chapter this week. I'm pretty much addicted to the Naruto manga. I just want to see what happens next!(don't get me wrong I have more than a few problems with the story but I'm trying to express something here) I don't think it's an amazing masterpiece or a fabulous piece of art. I just like the excitement I feel for the 50-70 seconds it takes me to read 18 pages a week. After I get my fix I kind of forget about it until it's Thursday again, and then I start to get anxious all over again waiting for the next chapter to be uploaded.

You see if I had access to the chapter like everyone else in Japan, I'd probably feel a too guilty to steal it online, and I'd probably be too cheap to buy it. Kinda how I don't go searching for scans of Western Comics(assuming they are out there). Maybe there's a comic series out there that would make me feel as giddy as Naruto, but I'll never find out because I'm not going to waste money on it and I'm definitely not going to steal it. Not sure if anyone can understand what I'm trying to express: the only reason I read Naruto online is because it's free and I can justify it to myself. In my little world I never romanticized the act of reading something on physical paper. So reading something on a screen doesn't turn me off at all. I have no idea as to why the comic industry can be hurt or helped by the internet. But to me it just seems really silly to state: paper is automatically a better experience than electronic. Especially when I become giddy like a school girl after I reload the page and see the new Naruto chapter uploaded.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby LiQuid » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 1:02pm

Geekbox cast: Do you guys use pop shields on your mics? It's probably just because I'm listening to this week's episode on my home theater setup instead of my old, busted PC speakers, but I'm hearing a ton of popping.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Master Higgins » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 1:28pm

Oops. It's been pointed out to me by a few people that the mini-pet in WoW 3.2 is a Wolvar, not a Worgen. So you can't be a Worgen with a Worgen pet and a Worgen minipet! :lol:
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Mr_eX » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 1:55pm

The Sixth Sense is not a good movie
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby kenzo » Aug 14th, 2009 @ 2:46pm

Gnarly!
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Hellsfire » Aug 15th, 2009 @ 2:19am

Damn, you guys sound old, especially you, Master Higgins. I'm only 27. I'm going to have to drive down to Sunnyvale to show you my e-reader. It's great! I love it. I've had it for 3-4 years now. There's none of this text scrolling like the Internet. It's just hit a button and it's the next page. Not to mention all the fancy things I can do with it.

People have the wrong misconception when it comes to things. You never own anything. You don't own your house because if you stop paying your property taxes, they'll take it away, but more relevant to the discussion is you don't own the story of the book or game or comic you bought. You only ever own the packaging--ie. the disc or the paper.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Mullet_Power » Aug 15th, 2009 @ 2:42pm

Master Higgins wrote:I'm sorry, I should have stated "western comics", as opposed to manga.

The average comic buyer is late 20s-40s with disposable income, same with manga. The problem is most western comics are aimed at adults, and manga, at least in the US, is seen as a kids thing to a large portion of the comic reading audience. It's a viewpoint I disagree with, but you can't argue facts that manga audience skewers a lot younger than western comics.

Check out Brian Hibbs' excellent Bookscan 2008 report here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=20119

There's one great line worth mentioning about the decline in sales of manga.

Further most (not all, but most) Manga is deep in the number-of-volumes per series. “Naruto" now has more than thirty-eight volumes in print, with many more to come. A bottom-line oriented look at what to stock and what not is going to say “Well, ‘Naruto’ sells very well, but to stock it all takes something like seven linear feet – maybe we don’t need to stock this thing which is somewhat similar to ‘Naruto,’ and also takes another four feet to display." “Western" comics tend to be more self-contained, and, even in multi-volume series, take up less rack space due to thinner volumes.

I also think it may be possible that manga has begun to hit some of the audience truths that Western comics have known for a long time. Historically, for the periodical comic, it was generally understood that the younger portions of the audience were only onboard for, say, four to six years – they started reading comics at age eight, they continued until twelve or thirteen, then they discovered girls or sports or cars or drugs, or whatever, and they stopped reading comics altogether at that point. The modern Direct Market allowed the production of work that appealed thematically to adults, and brought people back to the form once they became of college age, keeping them as customers for another twenty years or more. What I suspect is possible is that some of the longest term readers of modern manga production may now be starting to “age out" of material aimed at younger readers, but have not made the jump (or found the properties that engage them) as older readers.


I will agree that most people who buy manga are younger, but that most people who read Online Manga are older and don't buy nearly as much Manga. The reason why Manga buyers are younger is because for a 12 year old kid, manga has always been on the shelves which has caused (in my opinion) that difference for the most part. Most people reading online started reading when that was the only way to get the most recent chapters online. So outgrowing manga could be the cause for lower manga sales then last year, but my comment before was more about Manga sales always being much lower then they should be.

Master Higgins wrote:I think you're likely to find a lot of kids downloading manga online from fansubs because 1. It's free and 2. Like you said, way ahead of the printed material. That's not a problem in the US for western comics. Your first time getting a comic is Wednesday on the rack at your LCS. Timeliness always beats out price.

Another reason I think manga is suffering over comics is because of the art style. Manga, in the collected form, is printed small. It's been reported over the last few weeks that a lot of manga is being read on cell phones in Japan. I've read a few comics on my iPhone, and do not find it at all comparable to reading the printed book. This is less of a problem with manga, due to the art style. I love manga art, but in a lot of them, there is a lot less dialogue and a lot less going on in a given panel than their western counterparts.

If a truly awesome comic reader app comes out (looks like Longbox might be close), there will be people that download comics as opposed to buy them in stores, but I do not foresee a major shift like music. I still see a lot of resistance to watching tv shows on the computer, legal and free from the websites. Most people I know would rather watch them on their tv. But I've got 20 years on the kids that have always had major internet access in their life.

Are novels and comics going to be downloadable and read on cell phones/computers? Yes. Will it be as wide-spread at music? I don't believe so.


See this is where I disagree mostly, my original point about manga is that people are perfectly fine with reading on a screen. It has nothing to do with art style or word count. Not all manga are as light on text as Naruto or Bleach. A lot manga have an equal amount of dialog to Western Comics and a huge audience has no problem reading it online (I don't even want to get into the art style debate, there is plenty of manga with as detailed art). Also with the resolution you can get on a scanned image now, it can be larger and easier to read on a computer then a paper copy.

The format between Manga and Western Comics is different, but it isn't completely alien from each other. So with that said if the only thing preventing people from going online for Western Comics was because paper copies were so much better, then why haven't the Online Manga communities jumped ship and bought manga now that it is much closer to the current chapters online? It's because reading on a computer is at least comparable to reading on paper.

Print is in no way dead, but saying that reading on a computer is grossly inferior to paper copies just isn't true. In my eyes the only thing preventing Western Comic becoming like the music industry that is the current culture of collecting. But to argue that the format itself is "internet proof" isn't accurate in my opinion.
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Re: The Geekbox: Episode 27

Postby Karen » Aug 18th, 2009 @ 3:11pm

God, this whole Munchhausen Syndrom by Proxy thing is so interesting, but it's just so unbelievably messed up. To be so determined to get attention that some people will hurt their children to gain sympathy. Wow.
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